Digital Performer 5 is AWSOME!

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:11 am

Anyone know what the system requirements are? If I have to move to Tiger, I won't do it. I don't need to give up anymore CPU cycles on my aging Dual 1.8. I could stay up to date, but if it ain't broke... unless, they HAVE done an overhaul, as some are sighting MOTU as saying. Then it might be worth it.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:13 am

I gave up no CPU cycles moving to Tiger on my aging single 1.8, never
mind a dual.

Resonant Alien · Post by **Resonant Alien** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:39 am

Splinter wrote:There's so many ground level issues that need to be upgraded it's almost saddening to hear they're wasting their resources on VIs and track folders. Can we say, "Optimize?" Can we say, "Native support of AIFF and WAV audio files?" Can we say, "Universal Binary?" Can we say, "Better support and more frequent bug fixes?"

DP just needs an overhaul. Is it stable? Most of the time. Almost all the the "great" features added in the past have issues and need some reworking. Most of the time if you push any one feature too far DP crashes (like edge editing or the beat detection engine.) DP's just an aging app that needs a fresh start. I really thought that would happen with this release, but apparently not... yawn.

Agreed. DP 4.61 is very stable and does what I need, BUT, I haven't seen a single feature listed in this thread that warrants a bump to DP V5.0. Some cool incremental stuff to be sure, but nothing Earth shattering. This should be DP v4.7 if anything. IMHO, they shouldn't even try to call it 5.0 until it is Universal Binary AND optimized for performance on the Intel Macs. 'Scuse me while I go back to sleep.......

Resonant Alien · Post by **Resonant Alien** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:44 am

Also, if DP5 really is coming out this quarter, why no announcement at NAMM? Why no update on MOTU.com? Weird

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:48 am

Resonant Alien wrote:Also, if DP5 really is coming out this quarter, why no announcement at NAMM? Why no update on MOTU.com? Weird

Weird?

That's the way Motu has generally behaved since I bought into DP in the first place.

Tobor · Post by **Tobor** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:51 am

With all due respect to all you good people who have a stable system, for me the DP4.X era with the nice big shiny blue manuals has been largely a waste.

See the 'Stuck MIDI Notes.....arrrrggghhh!' thread, which comes up at regular intervals in some form or another.

I have used DP mainly for MIDI for 15 years happily until 4.X, and use the latest hardware from Roland, Korg, Yamaha, and MOTU. We've been around the block and back with MOTU and Magic Dave, and they've been helpful, but for me and others these critical bedrock issues remain.

For me DP4 is like having a lot of great toppings on burnt toast- looks great but you can't eat it. If I can't depend on the MIDI, I can't get into all the exciting new features in the audio department.

My computer is really too slow to run Reason 3.0, etc., so I've been itching to upgrade a new Mac. I have a sinking feeling, however, that even with a super fast intel machine and DP 5.0 these MIDI problems haven't been addressed. Maybe the new rust red logo will help?

Believe me, I hate to post in the new DP5.0 thread and be a whining wet blanket, but I think that a significant percentage of the original core loyalists who work mainly in MIDI/hardware are going to start looking elsewhere if these basic stability issues aren't dealt with.

And unfortunately the only thing we can do is to squeak the wheel.

Tobor

mandoman · Post by **mandoman** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:52 am

Shooshie wrote:
mandoman wrote:iLok would blow, at least for us notebook users. Especially seeing
how Apple only includes one USB port on their new macbooks.
Get a Kensington USB Dome. It's got 7 ports, and works like a charm. I think I paid $15 for mine. It's heavy enough that it doesn't flop around the desktop. It has a long cable, so you can put it just about anywhere, and the radial design keeps its size small while giving you more access. I have my dongles plugged into it all the time.

Shooshie

The whole point of a notebook is mobility. Carrying around extra dongles and hubs for location recording blows. What I hope to see: 1) Apple to add at least a 2nd USB port back in on the Macbook. 2) NO DP Dongle!

BobK · Post by **BobK** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:15 am

Splinter wrote:There's so many ground level issues that need to be upgraded it's almost saddening to hear they're wasting their resources on VIs and track folders. Can we say, "Optimize?" Can we say, "Native support of AIFF and WAV audio files?" Can we say, "Universal Binary?" Can we say, "Better support and more frequent bug fixes?"

DP just needs an overhaul. Is it stable? Most of the time. Almost all the the "great" features added in the past have issues and need some reworking. Most of the time if you push any one feature too far DP crashes (like edge editing or the beat detection engine.) DP's just an aging app that needs a fresh start. I really thought that would happen with this release, but apparently not... yawn.

I agree.

Plus I'd like some simple feature improvements to help workflow like auto-save; mute and solo buttons for tracks in the Sequence Editor; Aux sends included in the audio assignments window; and a pop-up window to rename markers as you add them. (PTLE has all of these features, I believe.)

Spikey Horse · Post by **Spikey Horse** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:17 am

Tobor wrote:With all due respect to all you good people who have a stable system, for me the DP4.X era with the nice big shiny blue manuals has been largely a waste.

See the 'Stuck MIDI Notes.....arrrrggghhh!' thread, which comes up at regular intervals in some form or another.

I have used DP mainly for MIDI for 15 years happily until 4.X, and use the latest hardware from Roland, Korg, Yamaha, and MOTU. We've been around the block and back with MOTU and Magic Dave, and they've been helpful, but for me and others these critical bedrock issues remain.

For me DP4 is like having a lot of great toppings on burnt toast- looks great but you can't eat it. If I can't depend on the MIDI, I can't get into all the exciting new features in the audio department.

My computer is really too slow to run Reason 3.0, etc., so I've been itching to upgrade a new Mac. I have a sinking feeling, however, that even with a super fast intel machine and DP 5.0 these MIDI problems haven't been addressed. Maybe the new rust red logo will help?

Believe me, I hate to post in the new DP5.0 thread and be a whining wet blanket, but I think that a significant percentage of the original core loyalists who work mainly in MIDI/hardware are going to start looking elsewhere if these basic stability issues aren't dealt with.

And unfortunately the only thing we can do is to squeak the wheel.

Tobor

iMac800/512, 10.2.8, EZQuest FW,828, MTPAV, VS2480, DIF-AT, S80, Triton, XP80, PSR530 etc. (3.1.1/9.2.2 if I have to)

If you are running DP4.6 on the set up on your sig maybe that is why it is running like burnt toast ......?

Although I think DP does need optimizing I think part of the problems people experience (including myself before I got a G5) is due to updating their big software apps (like DP) but not their mac. The latest updates (of anything) are always released with the next generation of macs in mind, not the last.

Here is the system req. straight from the unicorn's mouth:

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

- Digital Performer 4.6 has been fully tested and qualified for use with Mac OS X 10.3 or higher (Panther and Tiger).

- The minimum system required for Digital Performer 4.6 is a G4/500MHz with 512MB RAM.

- The recommended system required for Digital Performer 4.6 is a dual-processor G4 with 1GB of RAM or more.

Tobor · Post by **Tobor** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:53 am

If you are running DP4.6 on the set up on your sig maybe that is why it is running like burnt toast ......?

Yes, I agree that my machine is more than ready for an upgrade! But I am aware of the requirements- that's why I haven't upgraded to 4.6; still on 4.52.

My point is that I can't perform simple MIDI activity without these recurring problems, which is not a process that taxes the CPU. Magic Dave and MOTU realized that there was a problem with devices (Roland and Yamaha) which sent continuous midiclock signals, and this was meant to be fixed in the next upgrade (4.6) which I have not been able to verify because I'm not on 10.3.

But as the 'Stuck MIDI Notes...' thread reappeared, I noticed that some of the people with similar MIDI problems WERE using 4.6, which made me think that these issues (for me, critical) were still not fixed.

The 'burnt toast' line referred to all the wonderful new features, MIDI and otherwise, that I would LOVE to start exploring, but if the basics that I rely on don't work correctly, then nothing else is of use. It's maddening to see this beautiful program in front of me on my machine, an old friend to boot, and yet have this choatic musical mess occur everytime I hit a locate point when using something as elementary as midiclock sync.

Tobor

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:29 am

Hey, sorry the upcoming upgrade doesn't thrill some of you, but it promises good things for me.

No, come to think of it, I'm not that sorry.

I don't need more stability. DP has always been stable on my systems. Always. I've been with the app since Performer days.

I don't know why DP is unstable on your computers. I've never had stuck MIDI problems. DP doesn't crash on my box.

I think you guys don't know what you're doing. Flat out. You rationalize some weak way you work, then externalize the blame.

Folder, internal VIs and the other stuff -- I'll put them to immediate use.

I've budgeted to jump to Macintel and dual core stuff next year. My work will cover it. By then, DP 5 ought to be around and many UB kinks should be ironed out.

I bought wisely, making sure that last year's system will carry me through this year. That's one computer to last two years. You guys can't manage those logistics?

Whatever. I'm able to compose and mix music music for tv and film in virtually any genre asked of me using DP. Lots of VIs, lots of tracks, lof plugs. Sure, I use a few tools outside of it, but I don't have -- I just like to.

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:04 pm

The whole point of a notebook is mobility. Carrying around extra dongles and hubs for location recording blows. What I hope to see: 1) Apple to add at least a 2nd USB port back in on the Macbook. 2) NO DP Dongle!

There are two USB 2.0 ports on the Macbook, as well as FW 400 and an expansion slot for what ever you need. One is located next to the FW 400 port and the other is located next to the new magnetic power plug on the opposite side.

If you have a FW interface and use the card slot for another FW port (external HD), you'll have two USB ports for dongles/expansion.

Jeff

Tobor · Post by **Tobor** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:18 pm

I don't know why DP is unstable on your computers. I've never had stuck MIDI problems. DP doesn't crash on my box.

I think you guys don't know what you're doing. Flat out. You rationalize some weak way you work, then externalize the blame.

I figured the flames wouldn't be long in coming. Must admit I'm bristling a bit since I figure I kind of know what I'm doing after using the program for 15 years. I also realize that if you haven't had these problems, it is hard to relate. But these midiclock sync problems were verified by Magic Dave in a productive back-and-forth a few months ago.

Chris, you are one of most helpful, down to earth voices on this forum. So is Shooshie, another prolific contributor. I think you would agree that Shooshie knows what he is doing. Check out his comments on the 'Stuck Notes' thread.

It's highly likely that since you use mostly VIs and plugs that you've not had to deal with this problem. That's good news. I plan on getting more 'in the box' with a new machine and am excited at the prospect.

Just realize that some of us still working in hardware land have had some very real problems, and for us it's not a 'weak' way of working when we can express our musical ideas.

What is weak- and oh so frustrating- is a feature that you rely on that no longer works like it used to. Maybe you and many others don't use this feature. But I do.

I'm not trying to bash MOTU. I think they've got one of the best products out there and I've LOVED using the program- until 4.X. I realize that they've got a lot on their plate and more moving targets than certainly I'd want to deal with. But with all the (justifiable) jumping up and down over a new release, it just felt like that time again to say 'Hit my target, please....'

I just want to join the party again.

Tobor

blue · Post by **blue** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:20 pm

chrispick wrote:I think you guys don't know what you're doing. Flat out. You rationalize some weak way you work, then externalize the blame.

wow, that's harsh! but also true for some, i think.

i've never been happier with my setup, and i am doing more with it than ever. lots of virtual instruments, huge orchestral palettes. i do hit a wall at some point, but that point is way beyond what it was just a year and a half ago. things have gotten better.

i think ram is a huge variable. the only time i've ever had stuck notes is when i'm taxing the ram with massive orchestral instruments.

people get annoyed at motu for adding new features before optimizing the code, but i think they forget how competitive the sequencer market is. you have to add stuff to stay afloat. i always thought dp's strength was its range of features and ease of use, not its power under the hood. sure, i would love both. but i'll take the first two given a choice.

there was a time when dp was unusable. that time is over, unless of course you're still using old equipment.

blue · Post by **blue** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:38 pm

i want to amend what i posted above, where i agreed somewhat with chrispick that people with significant dp problems don't know what they're doing. that's not really fair.

i do think a big difference in many of these cases however is the caliber of machine people are running dp on. an iMac 800 with 10.2.8 and 512 RAM ain't gonna cut it. that may be sad, but it's also true.

512 RAM is barely enough for the system, let alone an app like dp. the frontside bus on that machine is also not up to snuff. and 10.2.8? another problem. panther was a big improvement for overall os efficiency.

it sucks to have to upgrade everything every couple of years to stay up to date, but if that's not an option the answer is simple: don't stay up to date! keep using the stuff that works well together, and forgo criticism of all the new bells and whistles that people who have capable machines like to enjoy.