Wondering how to adjust a single point of soundbite tempo

[kats_corner]

I'm running DP 10.1 (downloading 10.11 as I type), on a Mac.

My issue in brief: I have a soundbite which I have run through analysis for beats and tempo. The results are mostly excellent. However, there are exactly 5 points (none contiguous) which detected the tempo as 2x what it should have been. I understand that as much as the algorithm is greatly improving with each new DP version it's not 100% perfect in all cases, so I consider only 5 misses through the entire song quite amazing.

My question is, is there a workflow-friendly way to manually adjust only those 5 points to the correct tempo? The only built-in operations I am finding so far ("adjust/halve/double soundbite tempo" etc) seem to work on the whole soundbite, but I only need to adjust 5 points. I thought I might be able to individually grab or select those in the waveform editor, but that appears not to be the case.

I've searched for a number of related words/terms both in the DP10 manual and in this forum, but the results have not addressed my specific issue.

IIRC it seems in 9.52 I used to be able to add/delete beat lines in a soundbite using the waveform editor, but I hadn't used that feature very often. In 10.1 it appears this ability is either moved or removed. (I upgraded from 9.52 only about 3 weeks ago, so I'm still finding and embracing all the new changes in 10+.) If I *could* so modify beats, I could affect the tempo calculations around such points.

I've also tried copying the soundbite tempo to a sequence, and then adjusting the incorrect points in the composer bar, but as I feared, all following tempo points shift in relation to the changes. Or -- am I actually on the right track here, and after the adjustment I simply need to shift all following tempo points back their correct time positions? ("Correct" being the operative word here...) Once all corrections are made, then I'd have to copy the (now correct) sequence tempo back to the soundbite. At this point, this is the only way I can see to possibly solve my puzzle.

At the end of the day, I need the tempo points following a changed tempo point to remain intact and in place in time, so that changing the *value* of a few incorrect points will not alter their effect on the time alignment of what follows. I guess one could loosely think of what I'm trying to do as the tempo-related cousin of the "only change the recognized sample rate" checkbox in the "convert audio file" dialog....

I welcome any tips or pointers for a better way to do this, or at least verification that my slight-of-hand idea with soundbite tempos vs. sequence tempos is truly the right way to go. (Which I will be further exploring...)

[kats_corner]

Just an update: I applied the method I described in my OP, and it does indeed work.

A point or two of specifics: it *does* take a bit of time and hands-on to correctly re-shift all the following tempo points after each correction, so while it does work just fine, this is not what I would call a "workflow-friendly" approach. A related tip: set a locked marker on the proper location of the immediately-following tempo point in the composer bar *before* altering the tempo of the incorrect tempo point. That gives you a reference for exactly how far to shift the following tempos once you select them all. Second tip: lock the audio and MIDI track(s) of the project to keep things from getting dicey when you start adjusting those tempos. Finally: don't forget to copy the corrected sequence tempo back to the proper soundbite(s) when you're done.

After making these changes to my 5 misbehaving tempo points, the sequence plays throughout with proper measure/count reference. If I had been left with several more bad points, the process would have taken much longer to correct this way. So, I'm still hoping that there is a straightforward way (which I have not yet found) to make this kind of tempo correction within the waveform editor on a point-by-point basis, without altering the audio itself. It seems this would be a "best practice" type of approach, if it exists.

[mikehalloran]

The DP method works great the way you did it—time consuming as it was—but when you are handed a real mess, it’s not the best tool.

There are 3rd party apps that can let you adjust individual beats and, in the case of Melodyne, instruments within the beat. Melodyne Studio can even help you sync multiple tracks that would be a nightmare any other way. Quick and slow are relative terms when doing this kind of work.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I always preferred the accurate performance method. Play it right to begin with and no adjustments are needed. Lol

[mikehalloran]

I always preferred the accurate performance method. Play it right to begin with and no adjustments are needed. Lol

Two unlikely scenarios:

A) Sorry, I can’t record you now. Please come back when you’ve learned how to play — 3–5 years ought to do it if you practice. No, there isn’t enough money to get me to work with you.

B) Ok, I know he’s dead. What do you mean, you want this fixed? Yea, I’m not interested enough to give you a quote.

[kats_corner]

Mike,

Thanks for the reply! That was afraid it was going to be something like that was the way to do it. But, at least it works. I will certainly look into melodyne, I had always thought of it as primarily pitch correction software, not so much timing alignment software. Definitely sounds like something to look into though.

As far as recording it right the first time, yes I agree, but in this case it's a restoration from a cassette tape that's 30 years old...

[bayswater]

With a small number of errors, would you be able to slice the soundbite at the points where the tempo changes from correct to incorrect, and then deal with each slice separately, using just the basic 2x or 1/2x adjustment?

[kats_corner]

Bayswater,

That's a good thought. I had not considered that, But you may be onto something. Intuitively, it seems like that approach would indeed take less time than repositioning an arbitrary number of tempo marks. Good idea!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I always preferred the accurate performance method. Play it right to begin with and no adjustments are needed. Lol

Two unlikely scenarios:

A) Sorry, I can’t record you now. Please come back when you’ve learned how to play — 3–5 years ought to do it if you practice. No, there isn’t enough money to get me to work with you.

B) Ok, I know he’s dead. What do you mean, you want this fixed? Yea, I’m not interested enough to give you a quote.