Automatic audio recording nudge

[ski spiggy]

Hi all.

When I first started using DP, 5.6 I think, I needed to nudge any takes to make up for the round trip latency.
Somewhere a long the line it became automatic. But I'm finding it's not consistent or reliable.

I want to be able to turn off the automatic latency correction of recorded audio. I want to go back to having to nudge my recordings manually.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Worst case, I'll re load a copy of DP 5.6, and see what the default setting is. Because in the first use of DP, I always had to manually nudge to allow fr recording latency.

Thanks,
Spig

[Kurt Cowling]

I don’t believe there’s a way to turn off Automatic Delay Compensation. If you find it inconsistent perhaps you have latency inducing plugins on the Master Fader. Always record with NO plugins on the Master Fader. Not just bypassed. They must be removed.

[Phil O]

Setup>Configure Studio Settings>Automatic Plug-In Latency Compensation

I've never tried unchecking this, but I assume it's what you're looking for...or are you not recording through plugins?

Phil

[ski spiggy]

Thanks for the replies.

I have been over every parameter. And yes, I have a feeling, when I first started using DP, I unchecked the plugin delay compensation. For years I manually nudged recordings. Then I remember finding "in-out fine tuning", and didn't have to manually nudge anymore.

I think at some point, on a fresh DP install, I didn't uncheck the delay compensation. And everything seemed to magically fix itself. Except now it doesn't.

It only becomes obvious when I run a parallel bus, say a hardware drum bus compressor, or smashing a voc with a hardware 1176. While running externally, all good. Print to disc, and it's out of phase. It's been 30 samples out, 31, 25. The point is, it's inconsistent.

Thanks for the replies.

Spig

[ski spiggy]

I've just realised, turning off delay compensation must muck up plugin latency. I'll have to mess around with it.

[bayswater]

It's been 30 samples out, 31, 25.

30 samples? That's less than a millisecond. Are you getting some sort of phasing?

[ski spiggy]

I am. And it's really bad. I have checked this morning and it's not the plugin latency button. I would have never touched that.

I have sent a technical request to MOTU.

There is a work around, but it's laborious.

You use a track to bring in the audio and then send it out via a bus to a second audio track. You then record to the second audio track. DP doesn't see the audio as external and therefore doesn't do the automatic latency compensation. You then manually nudge the 8163 samples( which is my system latency) and it's perfect.

[magicd]

You should never have to nudge audio to make up for any sort of latency.

It sounds like you are getting an offset with overdubbed audio. That doesn't get fixed via plug-in latency compensation. That get's fixed by properly calibrating your audio interface.

Put a transient such as a snare drum into a DP track. Patch the output of the audio interface directly back to an input (watch out for feedback loops). The idea is you want to record the snare to a second track and you want to see that line up exactly with the original.

The setting you are looking for is:
Setup menu>Configure Audio System>Fine-tune Audio I/O Timing>Recording Offset. Play with this setting until overdubbed audio lines up exactly with pre-recorded audio.

Dave

[ski spiggy]

Thanks Dave. I understand this.

The true offset is 8136 samples. That's what has to be set up when I am monitoring parallel hardware processing.

But when it is printed, DP tries to allow for latency and prints as close to correct as it can. At the moment, it is not consistent.

I have done what you describe. Everyone does. That's how DAWs work.
But the calculated printed latency is changing from project to project.
31 samples, 30, 25.

I am choosing to nudge at the moment with my work around, because it is easy to test to see that the printed outboard track is correct by flipping between input and play to check for phaze.

I appreciate your input anyway.

Spig

[magicd]

I have done what you describe. Everyone does.

When I did tech support for DP I found that almost nobody checked record latency.

I play bass with my fingers, I just expect my tracks to be late and need fixing...

That's how DAWs work.
But the calculated printed latency is changing from project to project.
31 samples, 30, 25.

That's interesting. I wonder what is the variable?

Same sample rate for all projects?

I think if you used a process of elimination you should be able to find out what is changing. Is it happening in the software or outside the box? If you have two projects side by side with different record latency, you should be able to break those projects down until you find the cause.

Dave

[ski spiggy]

Hi Dave. It's not outside the box, as I monitor two hardware parallel drum bus comps right up until the mix is complete. Then print. My monitoring chain is always set up with a 8136 sample delay. If it ever changed, even by only 5 to 10 samples, the drums would go out of phase and sound ridiculous.

I do not understand why the developers ever changed the manual offset requirement. It was reliable and easy to do. The latency of my system is 8136 samples, so the play/rec fine tuning was set to 8136 samples.
It worked.

All my projects use the same set up.

If DP cannot have the "automatic latency correction" turned off, I will just have two buses always available for audio track redirection and set the offset to 8136 samples in the fine tuning.

Reliability is way more important to me than convenience.

[magicd]

Hi Dave. It's not outside the box, as I monitor two hardware parallel drum bus comps right up until the mix is complete. Then print. My monitoring chain is always set up with a 8136 sample delay. If it ever changed, even by only 5 to 10 samples, the drums would go out of phase and sound ridiculous.

I do not understand why the developers ever changed the manual offset requirement. It was reliable and easy to do. The latency of my system is 8136 samples, so the play/rec fine tuning was set to 8136 samples.
It worked.

All my projects use the same set up.

If DP cannot have the "automatic latency correction" turned off, I will just have two buses always available for audio track redirection and set the offset to 8136 samples in the fine tuning.

Reliability is way more important to me than convenience.

Hey, I'll do what I can to help.

The record latency has to do with recording audio in from an external source. If you have latency problems within DP, it's not because of the record offset.

You say: "two hardware parallel drum bus comps" is where you are finding an offset. You should be able to pinpoint where in that signal chain the offset is occurring. I would start by removing all plug-ins. A simple way to do that is to choose a new mix from the tab in the bottom left of the mixer. The new mix will have no plug-ins or automation. Do that and record the outputs of the two drum busses. This simple test will tell you if plug-ins have anything to do with the problem.

Another question: In your signal path do you have any live inputs from external sources?

Dave

[ski spiggy]

Hi Dave.
I appreciate your input. And I appreciate the fact that this is a difficult concept to write clearly about. I have really tried to write clearly.
But it would appear, not clearly enough.

I will wait for MOTU's tech response. For now, my work around is working fine by tricking DP into thinking the the externally recorded audio is an internal source. So DP is making no attempt to make up for the external latency.
I don't care that I need to manually nudge, it's a minor inconvenience for the sake of reliability.

Spig

[magicd]

Hi Dave.
I appreciate your input. And I appreciate the fact that this is a difficult concept to write clearly about. I have really tried to write clearly.
But it would appear, not clearly enough.

I will wait for MOTU's tech response. For now, my work around is working fine by tricking DP into thinking the the externally recorded audio is an internal source. So DP is making no attempt to make up for the external latency.
I don't care that I need to manually nudge, it's a minor inconvenience for the sake of reliability.

Spig

There is an answer. I wouldn't put up with slop timing. Best of luck and let us know how it turns out!

Dave

[ski spiggy]

MOTU have no idea what the problem is. I have tried a lot of things. Getting rid of plugins just in case that was the problem etc.

I will continue to record audio via an aux channel and manually nudge.

I will also continue to investigate for a solution.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.