NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

[Todzilla]

VCA Faders are a panacea for my poor work habits that lead to Fader Creep?

If so, bravo! I get to remain undisciplined.

[FMiguelez]

I use snapshots via key command all the time, especially at the start of a cue to copy fader and CC settings to tracks.

Yup, so do I.

Also, there are snapshot options so you don’t include “every plug in parameter”. Just saying

I don't know if that's a little hint of condescendence or if I'm just in a bad mood, but come on, Frank... Do you really think I or OldTimey don't know that already?

If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I mentioned that very option you just mentioned yourself... Yes, It's right there. It's actually a set of 5 options you get in the Automation Setup dialog box that it's related to the Snapshot dialog when you set the Range and the other 2 properties.

The problem is that plug-in snapshots just don't work as stated in the manual, no matter which option you select!

Either, DP fails to ID and recognize all plugin parameters, so you can allow or forbid any number of them, or the option stays greyed out, or it's not available, or it just doesn't do what you tell DP to do.

So as things are now, you have to be content to get a snapshot of ALL plug-in parameters (which can be dozens of them), and then spend 5 minutes deleting the ones you didn't want, one by one, from a never-ending list -every time you take a snapshot-, OR, you have to use another method, such as recording parameters by touching them, and then select them and shift them to the same point in time all together (like if they were a snapshot).
When you're under tight deadlines, one wants to waste as little time as possible for these little annoyances that, when added together, they translate into huge amounts of wasted time, frustration and stress.
None of that would happen if they worked correctly.

I just tried it with a few Waves and MOTU plugins, and it doesn't work as expected or as stated in the manual.

[dix]

Anyone who went to NAMM happen to notice if you can adjust velocities with the new velocity “thermometer”?

Among the top complaints I hear from people considering switching to DP is that the tiny velocity stalks are difficult to see and adjust....I myself have modded DP’s GUI a couple times to make them more visible, but got tired of having to redo it every time there was an update.

[bayswater]

I use snapshots via key command all the time, especially at the start of a cue to copy fader and CC settings to tracks.

Yup, so do I.

Also, there are snapshot options so you don’t include “every plug in parameter”. Just saying

I don't know if that's a little hint of condescendence or if I'm just in a bad mood, but come on, Frank... Do you really think I or OldTimey don't know that already?

FM, I don't doubt what you see, but I don't see the same thing. I noted some time ago with the earlier release of DP9 that different people were seeing different things happen in the automation lanes when they first appeared, and we were talking about the inability to draw automation curves where we wanted them. There were screenshots and videos posted and it was clear that we did not have a common experience. I think this is the source of a lot of confusion.

I have just tried snapshots using Waves Ren EQ and PSP Noble Q. In both cases, if I chose the option in include only active parameters, that's what I got. So in the case of Waves EQ, I had some data on band 1 freq and gain, and nothing on band 6 (it ought to be called band 2 I suppose but this is Waves).

Having said that, I agree that snapshots don't work as documented. If I choose a snapshot of all parameters showing in the edit window, etc, it doesn't do that unless they've been "touched" (as I think Frank suggested some time ago). In fact, I don't think I've ever been able to get a snapshot for everything in one "shot" in DP 9, although I remember begin able to do this in V8 or maybe it was V7.

I've found automation in DP inconsistent at best, and I've used it sparingly and just drawn in what I need because of that. Perhaps someone at MOTU will post a comprehensive tutorial showing us just how they think it should work.

[bayswater]

Anyone who went to NAMM happen to notice if you can adjust velocities with the new velocity “thermometer”?

Among the top complaints I hear from people considering switching to DP is that the tiny velocity stalks are difficult to see and adjust....I myself have modded DP’s GUI a couple times to make them more visible, but got tired of having to redo it every time there was an update.

!! it never occurred to me that you can't use the thermometers to edit. Why bother otherwise?

[dix]

Anyone who went to NAMM happen to notice if you can adjust velocities with the new velocity “thermometer”?

Among the top complaints I hear from people considering switching to DP is that the tiny velocity stalks are difficult to see and adjust....I myself have modded DP’s GUI a couple times to make them more visible, but got tired of having to redo it every time there was an update.

!! it never occurred to me that you can't use the thermometers to edit. Why bother otherwise?

I don’t know, visual feedback? There’d need to be a modifier or something if you can adjust them I’d think. You can’t just click and drag on MIDI notes without moving them of course.

[FMiguelez]

I have just tried snapshots using Waves Ren EQ and PSP Noble Q. In both cases, if I chose the option in include only active parameters, that's what I got. So in the case of Waves EQ, I had some data on band 1 freq and gain, and nothing on band 6 (it ought to be called band 2 I suppose but this is Waves).

Having said that, I agree that snapshots don't work as documented. If I choose a snapshot of all parameters showing in the edit window, etc, it doesn't do that unless they've been "touched" (as I think Frank suggested some time ago). In fact, I don't think I've ever been able to get a snapshot for everything in one "shot" in DP 9, although I remember begin able to do this in V8 or maybe it was V7.

I've found automation in DP inconsistent at best, and I've used it sparingly and just drawn in what I need because of that. Perhaps someone at MOTU will post a comprehensive tutorial showing us just how they think it should work.

Thank you so much for taking the time for testing this, Bays.

I didn't know that some of the things you mentioned worked fine for some and not worked for others. I wonder what can be the cause?

Actually, I'm very surprised to see that you just tested the SAME Waves plugin I tested with completely different results. That certainly will not make the detective work any easier.

Were you guys able to discover any common things between cases where it worked and where it didn't work? Any main setup differences?

Bays, if you don't mind my asking, how exactly did you set your test? Did you first allow your desired plugin parameters in the Automation Setup box and then took the Snapshot? Which option did you choose for the actual snapshot properties?

I must add that I get the same not-working-properly results from my main production computer, from one of the slaves, and from my office computer.

[bayswater]

Anyone who went to NAMM happen to notice if you can adjust velocities with the new velocity “thermometer”?

Among the top complaints I hear from people considering switching to DP is that the tiny velocity stalks are difficult to see and adjust....I myself have modded DP’s GUI a couple times to make them more visible, but got tired of having to redo it every time there was an update.

!! it never occurred to me that you can't use the thermometers to edit. Why bother otherwise?

I don’t know, visual feedback? There’d need to be a modifier or something if you can adjust them I’d think. You can’t just click and drag on MIDI notes without moving them of course.

In other apps you can drag the note or the velocity indicator inside the note independently. I assume this is how DP will work.

[bayswater]

I have just tried snapshots using Waves Ren EQ and PSP Noble Q. In both cases, if I chose the option in include only active parameters, that's what I got. So in the case of Waves EQ, I had some data on band 1 freq and gain, and nothing on band 6 (it ought to be called band 2 I suppose but this is Waves).

Having said that, I agree that snapshots don't work as documented. If I choose a snapshot of all parameters showing in the edit window, etc, it doesn't do that unless they've been "touched" (as I think Frank suggested some time ago). In fact, I don't think I've ever been able to get a snapshot for everything in one "shot" in DP 9, although I remember begin able to do this in V8 or maybe it was V7.

I've found automation in DP inconsistent at best, and I've used it sparingly and just drawn in what I need because of that. Perhaps someone at MOTU will post a comprehensive tutorial showing us just how they think it should work.

Thank you so much for taking the time for testing this, Bays.

I didn't know that some of the things you mentioned worked fine for some and not worked for others. I wonder what can be the cause?

Actually, I'm very surprised to see that you just tested the SAME Waves plugin I tested with completely different results. That certainly will not make the detective work any easier.

Were you guys able to discover any common things between cases where it worked and where it didn't work? Any main setup differences?

Bays, if you don't mind my asking, how exactly did you set your test? Did you first allow your desired plugin parameters in the Automation Setup box and then took the Snapshot? Which option did you choose for the actual snapshot properties?

I must add that I get the same not-working-properly results from my main production computer, from one of the slaves, and from my office computer.

I have everything turned on in the Automation Set Window. Enable is checked, and all audio and MIDI boxes are checked. On the right, Enable read and write is on and set as default for audio tracks.

In the snapshot box, I usually choose from Counter to Chunk Start with the counter a bar or two in. For tracks, I use "shown in Edit window" and have tracks highlighted in the track selection window of the Sequence Editor. For Data Types I've used the first 3 options. All Enabled Data Types and Data Types visible in the Mixing board creates automation for Volume and Pan at the correct level, but nothing else. Using Current Data Types in Edit Window does nothing regardless of the automation lanes showing in the SE. Even if there is automation data like Volume, showing, if I change the level on the fader and use this option, no changes appear in the automation lane.

The last two data type options concerning Effects are greyed out and nothing for an effect is ever written with a snapshot. (Read and Write Automation is enabled on the audio track).

If I then manually insert automation by pressing Play and moving controls in the Effect GUI, automation data is written into the appropriate lane. Even so, the latter two options on Data Types that refer to the Effects window are not available. I have an Effects Window Open showing one of the two effects. Using "All enabled data types" still doesn't work, despite visible data for a parameter for a plugin showing in an automation lane. I can move that parameter in the plugin and do another snapshot, and nothing happens.

So unlike your situation where you get automation for every parameter on a plugin, I get none, at least not with any of the options I can see. Reading the manual, it all looks reasonable, but I can't discern any consistent relationship between what the manual says, and what happens.

[dix]

In other apps you can drag the note or the velocity indicator inside the note independently. I assume this is how DP will work.

Sounds good. Let's hope this feature does add another way to adjust velocity. It's the wording in the what's-new list that made me wonder. It says: "MIDI note display preferences – MIDI notes can be displayed with greater detail, including their MIDI note name, to quickly identify the pitch and on-velocity of each note at a glance." No mention of edit-ability. Someone who went to NAMM that had any hands-on time with the DP10 demo might be able to clarify.

[Michael Canavan]

In other apps you can drag the note or the velocity indicator inside the note independently. I assume this is how DP will work.

Sounds good. Let's hope this feature does add another way to adjust velocity. It's the wording in the what's-new list that made me wonder. It says: "MIDI note display preferences – MIDI notes can be displayed with greater detail, including their MIDI note name, to quickly identify the pitch and on-velocity of each note at a glance." No mention of edit-ability. Someone who went to NAMM that had any hands-on time with the DP10 demo might be able to clarify.

I'm waiting until it's sitting in front of me to find out. My guess is it's a "not ready for prime time" feature that will come in an update, because it makes too much sense not to do. I'm still sort of shocked that we didn't get spectral editing in the Sequencer window to be honest. Samplitude and That which shall not be named less we summon it™ both do spectral editing on spectrograms in their timelines.

[Michael Canavan]

so direct from the horses mouth, the instrument library included in DP 10 will be instantiated in the UVI Player, and hopefully M53 and Falcon. Right around 2:40 if want to skip to that part. So not a total freeze with UVI it sounds like.

[supersonic]

Has anything been mentioned about better support for ambisonic plugins?
(Addressing multiple inputs, saving audio files in ambisonic file formats.)

I suppose some of that might come from VST3 support.

This is a big one for me too and I will be shortly asking that question
Are you producing any ambisonic/binaural material right now on DP 9?

[Babz]

so direct from the horses mouth, the instrument library included in DP 10 will be instantiated in the UVI Player, and hopefully M53 and Falcon. Right around 2:40 if want to skip to that part. So not a total freeze with UVI it sounds like.

Makes perfect sense. Generally anything that opens in UVI Workstation can also be read by Falcon, but we’ll see.

I just realized this is the first NAMM without Magic Dave, right? Of course, Brendon is doing a super job stepping in... maybe he needs to rebrand with a new nickname.. Brendon The Sorcerer? sorry..

I want a 3-ultrawide-monitor set up like that!

[mikehalloran]

so direct from the horses mouth, the instrument library included in DP 10 will be instantiated in the UVI Player, and hopefully M53 and Falcon. Right around 2:40 if want to skip to that part. So not a total freeze with UVI it sounds like

But it doesn’t sound like there are any new instruments that aren’t already in M5 and Ethno—perhaps Symphonic and Electric Keys also?

What is the likelyhood that one would be able to host these in Falcon or another app — or even the stand alone UVI Player? Yes it would be cool.

We’ll know soon enough.

I’m wondering if I’ll learn it well enough to use the new features in my lifetime. As my imagination never drifts toward loop based anything, there’s a lot I will never have to deal with so that’s reassuring. I’ll spend the two bills but wonder how much I will use.