Possible Solution to UAD PCI Express Problem?

[Resonant Alien]

I currently have a PowerMac G4 and would like to upgrade either to a PowerMac G5 Quad or a PowerMacIntel (whenever it is ready later this year of course), but I use UAD PCI cards and we're all aware that the new PowerMacs dont' support PCI. So, barring a NAMM announcement from UA about a PCI-Express UAD card, I am trying to put together a workaround solution, and I found this......

http://plasq.com/wormhole

With this wormhole thing, it seems that I could by a new PCI Express only Mac to run everything except UAD - keep my G4 to run my UADs, connect the new Mac and the G4 with a ethernet cable, and basically run my G4 as a PCI expansion chassis.

Wormhole claims to fully support auto delay comp, so this solution would really be no different than buying a Magma Chassis to do the same kind of thing.....except it would not cost me the $1400 for the Magma.

Anyone using this wormhole thing to do this kind of stuff? Does it really work?????

[Splinter]

Anyone using this wormhole thing to do this kind of stuff? Does it really work?????

I have no idea, but this is really interesting stuff. I had no idea anyone was doing this. I wonder how it would be different than Logic's nodes. I assume you can run this with any application. Does it require 2 licenses of your software. I'm trying to figure this out.

[Splinter]

Read the manual for Wormhole. I didn't totally get it, but this is fascinating stuff. Probably easier to understand by hooking it up and doing it. I did notice them using DP as a host in one of the screenshots with Live as an AU farm. Pretty amazing!

I don't know how your UADs would work in this configuration. I suppose the auto latency compesation in Wormhole would account for the UADs latency as well. I would imagine the latency in a configuration like this would be huge. It might work, but it may drive you crazy!

[TOD]

Read the manual for Wormhole. I didn't totally get it, but this is fascinating stuff. Probably easier to understand by hooking it up and doing it. I did not them using DP as a host in one of the screenshots with Live as an AU farm. Pretty amazing!

I don't know how your UADs would work in this configuration. I suppose the auto latency compesation in Wormhole would account for the UADs latency as well. I would imagine the latency in a configuration like this would be huge. It might work, but it may drive you crazy!

Keep us posted, I've heard, (OSX) there is still some serious MIDI and audio platency with wormhole.

[Jaysplace101]

Just wondering if anyone else has had any luck with wormhole2. From what I've read on their forum, it seems like it's really no different than hooking two computers up as far as latency; you've got latency from both computers which can really add up.

j

[aplanchard]

But with ADC it should not matter, no?

[edham]

There is no way wormhole can compensate for the delay.
Think about it.
The delay compensation works by delaying all other tracks to match the most delayed track and then advancing ALL tracks back to the zero point.

How would wormhole know how much delay that is inside DP ?

The reason logic node works is that the node comunicates that info to logic itself. Wormhole does not do that with any daw.

So you have the latency of you main daw plus the latency of the wormhole mac.

Wormhole can't possibly take in audio - process it through plugs - and spit it back out in real time. there has to be computer cycles involved which is what latency is.

That said - you could always record a click or pop - bounce it through to the wormhole mac and plugs - and re record it back in the main daw.
Line up the pops - figure out how many milliseconds it was off and manually align the track.

zero fun though.

Waiting for DP node !!!!

[MT]

There is no way wormhole can compensate for the delay.
Think about it.
The delay compensation works by delaying all other tracks to match the most delayed track and then advancing ALL tracks back to the zero point.

How would wormhole know how much delay that is inside DP ?

The reason logic node works is that the node comunicates that info to logic itself. Wormhole does not do that with any daw.

So you have the latency of you main daw plus the latency of the wormhole mac.

Wormhole can't possibly take in audio - process it through plugs - and spit it back out in real time. there has to be computer cycles involved which is what latency is.

That said - you could always record a click or pop - bounce it through to the wormhole mac and plugs - and re record it back in the main daw.
Line up the pops - figure out how many milliseconds it was off and manually align the track.

zero fun though.

Waiting for DP node !!!!

According to their PAQ, it sounds like they can account for it, from what I understood.

Edit for link - at least they claim that they can. :)

[grimepoch]

I believe there is a demo you can download. I own the Wormhole2 plugin, but hadn't played with it since Wormhole1 (I bought it RIGHT before 2 came out and they upgraded me for free).

They claim you can do 30 mono tracks at 100mbit. I'll play with it this weekend and see how it works coming from my MINI.

[Jaysplace101]

That would be great, Rick. Anxious to hear how it works out. I'm most interested in the latency. I think that's the main issue here.

j

[Timeline]

It seems like latency would work in wormhole if they employ 'ping' which would modify the plugin comp number automatically. Doesn't Logic do that?

[Splinter]

It seems like latency would work in wormhole if they employ 'ping' which would modify the plugin comp number automatically.

Wormhole does use a "ping" and then reports the latency to the host just like any other AU plug. It even tells you how many samples the latency is. I don't own it - seeing how I only have one Mac in the studio - but I read through the manual. Seems you can connect multiple computers. I'm curious to hear how it works from someone who's tried it.

[jandron]

FWIW, I spent a few frustrating days trying to get wormhole to work--it took a while for me to get my two computers to 'see' each other. When I finally was able to get it working, I was very excited; I thought it was the answer to my prayers. It turns out, for me anyway, that it's not ready for prime time. It would just cut out intermittantly. Also, it seemed to cause a CPU hit on my host computer (a 2.0 Dual G5) which kinda negated the reason for using it in the first place. Which is too bad, because it's a great concept. It could be used for both VI's and plug-ins, that is, if it worked well.

What I ended up doing was buying an M-Audio Audiophile 192 card for my second computer (a 1.42 DP G4). MIDI In, Audio Out to one of my 1224's.

This works great!

[grimepoch]

Back with Wormhole1 this was my same assessment. Now that I have two (which I am assuming you have run as well) I want to give a second metric. I personally feel I'll see the same thing, but figured it's still worth the try to run it, since I did buy it.

[Eleventh Hour Sound]

Let us know what happens. I tried WormHole2 a few months ago and was also impressed by it's potential, but there were some issues I couldn't figure out. I eventually tried JackOSX which is free, but had problems with it too....

It will be amazing technology when they get it all working. For now I'm going low tech just using a second G5 with an 828MKII as a glorified sound module, just connecting MIDI and using the 828's audio out : )