plugin parameter automation question

[fgagne]

(this was sent to the motu-mac email list too... what can i say, i'm desperate!)



Running into a strange issue that is hard to google...

I'm trying to automate a plugin using the 'insert' mode in the sequence editor.

What I'd like to do is for the track I'm effecting to simply play as normal for, say, the start of the song (and the plugin's detune knob is set to 50% which is12oclock on the knob where it has NO effect) to my chosen effect's start-point and then at this specific spot, have it detune for a couple beats (knob goes down to about 7 oclock) and then bump right back up to normal (12 oclock on the plugin's knob).

About the plugin's GUI:
If one were to simply open this plugin and look at its controls you'd notice that its knobs are set by default in the center position (12 oclock). In other words, when at this position (12 oclock) the knobs have no effect.

When I click 'insert' and then choose my plugin and finally select the specific parameter I want to automate ('detune' in my case), the pencil tool is selected and, apparently, I'm supposed to be able to draw in the automation that I want with this??

This seems very odd to me as the pencil allows me to set points but they're hardly exacting. In fact, I don't think anyone could use that pencil tool and click in the exact same spot twice in a row could they?

What if you wanted this exact (and I mean EXACT) automation to happen on another track? The pencil tool wouldn't work to match it!?

In fact, I haven't quite wrapped my head around what, exactly, I'm supposed to do with this tool...

If I'm in the sequence editor and want this automation to start at dead-nuts 50% of my waveform (as that's where the knob is set by default..i.e. no effect) and then go all the way to the bottom (I have the range of '-2' selected in the plugin's gui) so that the pitch only dives down 2 half steps, how can I start the effect with precision accuracy? In other words, how can I start it in its default position of 'no effect', move it all the way to the bottom, and then back up to the 'no effect' position? If I use the pencil tool it always selects near where it should but never dead-nuts in the middle.

Basically, if I make this choice visually and try to click right in the middle of my waveform, I'll never be able to find the exact 50% point to match the 50% setting (i.e. 12oclock) of my targetted parameters knob. Therefore, the automation will always start effected.

This is an odd problem and I'm having problems verbalizing it but I could keep trying. I can't believe what I'm talking about is that uncommon...

Has anyone dealt with this before?

Thanks for any advice!!

[philbrown]

Have you tried inserting the events in the Event List? Or maybe enter some rough values in the SE with the pencil and edit them in the Event List. If the parameter range is mapping 0-127 against the knob positions of the plug then a value of 63 or 64 would work - theoretically anyway.

[philbrown]

I reread your post and unless I'm missing something, it seems it would be much easier just to use bypass automation. Is there some reason you can't just bypass and 'un-bypass' the plug-in?

[fgagne]

Yeah, maybe.

I've even tried using 'snapshots' but that still brings up the pencil tool???

I don't understand why but it does.

I'm really having a lot of second thoughts regarding Motu's workflow, etc.

This shouldn't be so kludgey.

[philbrown]

I'll stick with my first suggestion.

[fgagne]

Is there a way to get automation to ONLY effect the plugin parameters and NOT the fader level as well?

[Gravity Jim]

When I want this kind of effect (multi-tap delay, for example, just on the last word of a vocal line), I create a second track, put the effect on that track, and simply cut the stuff I want affected and slide it down into the 2nd, effected track. So much easier than screwing around with automation that may or may not work, depending on whether you hold your mouth right (as my Grandma used to say).

Just did this two days ago, in fact.

[philbrown]

When I want this kind of effect (multi-tap delay, for example, just on the last word of a vocal line), I create a second track, put the effect on that track, and simply cut the stuff I want affected and slide it down into the 2nd, effected track. So much easier than screwing around with automation that may or may not work, depending on whether you hold your mouth right (as my Grandma used to say).

Just did this two days ago, in fact.

Actually, that's how I usually do it too. More control that way.

[csavetman]

(this was sent to the motu-mac email list too... what can i say, i'm desperate!)



Running into a strange issue that is hard to google...

I'm trying to automate a plugin using the 'insert' mode in the sequence editor.

What I'd like to do is for the track I'm effecting to simply play as normal for, say, the start of the song (and the plugin's detune knob is set to 50% which is12oclock on the knob where it has NO effect) to my chosen effect's start-point and then at this specific spot, have it detune for a couple beats (knob goes down to about 7 oclock) and then bump right back up to normal (12 oclock on the plugin's knob).

About the plugin's GUI:
If one were to simply open this plugin and look at its controls you'd notice that its knobs are set by default in the center position (12 oclock). In other words, when at this position (12 oclock) the knobs have no effect.

When I click 'insert' and then choose my plugin and finally select the specific parameter I want to automate ('detune' in my case), the pencil tool is selected and, apparently, I'm supposed to be able to draw in the automation that I want with this??

This seems very odd to me as the pencil allows me to set points but they're hardly exacting. In fact, I don't think anyone could use that pencil tool and click in the exact same spot twice in a row could they?

What if you wanted this exact (and I mean EXACT) automation to happen on another track? The pencil tool wouldn't work to match it!?

In fact, I haven't quite wrapped my head around what, exactly, I'm supposed to do with this tool...

If I'm in the sequence editor and want this automation to start at dead-nuts 50% of my waveform (as that's where the knob is set by default..i.e. no effect) and then go all the way to the bottom (I have the range of '-2' selected in the plugin's gui) so that the pitch only dives down 2 half steps, how can I start the effect with precision accuracy? In other words, how can I start it in its default position of 'no effect', move it all the way to the bottom, and then back up to the 'no effect' position? If I use the pencil tool it always selects near where it should but never dead-nuts in the middle.

Basically, if I make this choice visually and try to click right in the middle of my waveform, I'll never be able to find the exact 50% point to match the 50% setting (i.e. 12oclock) of my targetted parameters knob. Therefore, the automation will always start effected.

This is an odd problem and I'm having problems verbalizing it but I could keep trying. I can't believe what I'm talking about is that uncommon...

Has anyone dealt with this before?

Thanks for any advice!!

Assuming this is an audio plugin- what I usually do in this case is set the controls in the plugin interface the way I want to start- then take a snapshot of it (choosing whichever time range selection you may need)
At the point you want it to land at a different value, set the controls how you want, then take another snapshot, ( you can select whether you want the new value to ramp from the previous one, or jump right to it).
Does that help?

Carlos

[philbrown]

4 different suggestions. I wonder if the OP will actually try any of them?

[fgagne]

OP did try most of them and finally figured it out!

The most confounding thing being how the dots get placed when clicking to start the shape.

I'm much appreciative for all the responses.

Many thanks, friends!

[HCMarkus]

I like and use Jim's approach, too.

When you start to add up the number of parameters required to get some effects just right, it makes a lot of sense.

[philbrown]

OP did try most of them and finally figured it out!

The most confounding thing being how the dots get placed when clicking to start the shape.

I'm much appreciative for all the responses.

Many thanks, friends!

[ccrane]

Just wanted to add that if you set a track to automation record, and then click on the plugin's parameter (control knob or fader) while the sequence is playing, DP will create an automation point with that *exact* value in the SE track. Helpful for those times when it's nearly impossible to pencil in the exact automation value that the plugin is currently set to.

[magicd]

If you click on an automation point in the Sequence editor the event will be show in the upper left corner of the Sequence Editor window. Look for the letter E and the time line location and value to the right. You can click on the value and enter a precise number.

Dave