Need Cheap Overheads - C4's? NT-1's?

dmshep · Post by **dmshep** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:05 am

I've been using Neumann KM184's for overheads, but one has crapped out on me and while I'm waiting for the studio owner to get it fixed (long story) I need a cheaper replacement for a little while. I've read some good things about the SP C4's, and realize they're not going to be as good as the Neumann's, but how good are they in and of themselves?

I also have a pair of Rode NT-1's that I like but as soon as I put them on drums I get clipped waveforms even at very pre-amp settings. Does anyone know where I can find (or find plans to build, as I've heard can be done) some pad's I could put in line between the NT-1 and preamp to deal with this?

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:35 am

For the money, the C4's are hard to beat for an affordable option.... the fact that you get the choice of Cardiod -or- Omni is great! No, they are no Neumann which you understand....but they aren't expensive, provide a good cheap alternative, and can be used later too.

epidot68 · Post by **epidot68** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:41 am

dmshep-

I have had great luck with an inexpensive pair of AKG C430's ($199 at Musicians's Friend on special) as drum overheads. Mic placement is key here. I have found that about 18 inches over the drummer's head set up in a XY coincident of 60 degrees (not 90 degrees as you see so often) works well. I roll these off at 355Hz aith a Q of .71. Other placement options just sound a bit thin.

A second option is a pair of AKG 1000S, but these are more expensive. Last option is a pair of Shure SM 81, but now we are talking $700 for the pair. These last two however also work well with acoustic stringed instruments and the C430's not so much, IMHO.

methezer · Post by **methezer** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:22 pm

well, since you said you had a pair of mics you liked but they are too hot you could try a couple of these...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... &sku=68600

jmoore · Post by **jmoore** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:05 pm

For my money, I'd go with the NT1A's. My drummer just bought a pair that we are running into the pres on a Digimax LT with great results. At this point we've only used them as overheads, but we plan to record some guitars and vocals with them in the near future. I've got a sample recording that I'd be happy to email you if you can receive a 3.5mb file.

Let me know,

-jordan

dmshep · Post by **dmshep** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:00 pm

methezer wrote:well, since you said you had a pair of mics you liked but they are too hot you could try a couple of these...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... &sku=68600

I'd be very tempted to try that. Here's the thing, though. The studio owner built our preamps himself and says they go all the way down to 0dB, and therefore the overload is happening in the mic and not at the preamp, and an in-line pad wouldn't work. I'm no tech, so I can't say, but as noted above others are using the Rode's for OH's successfully.

Jordan - have you run into the clipping at all? How high are you placing them over the drums?

The owner wants to order the C4's regardless, so I guess I'll have alternatives.

jmoore · Post by **jmoore** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:46 pm

The overheads sound very clean, and we haven't noted any clipping whatsoever. I can't honestly say if we wound up needing to pad those mics or not. How close are the mics to the cymbals? We have been placing ours about 18-24" above the highest cymbal (if memory serves me correctly), although we're still having fun experimenting. Again, I'd be happy to shoot you an mp3 if you'd like to hear them for yourself.

OFF TOPIC:

What kind of pres did your studio owner build? I ask only because I've been toying around with buying one of the Seventh Circle Audio DIY preamp kits. Is that by any chance what you're using?

-jordan

dmshep · Post by **dmshep** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:11 pm

jmoore wrote:The overheads sound very clean, and we haven't noted any clipping whatsoever. I can't honestly say if we wound up needing to pad those mics or not. How close are the mics to the cymbals? We have been placing ours about 18-24" above the highest cymbal (if memory serves me correctly), although we're still having fun experimenting. Again, I'd be happy to shoot you an mp3 if you'd like to hear them for yourself.

OFF TOPIC:

What kind of pres did your studio owner build? I ask only because I've been toying around with buying one of the Seventh Circle Audio DIY preamp kits. Is that by any chance what you're using?

-jordan

Sure, by all means shoot me the MP3. Next kit I record I'm going to try the NT-1's again and see what happens. The last time I recall having them fairly high above the kit, but perhaps a little more distance would solve it.

He built the preamps completely from scratch using his own designs. I'm not sure exactly what parts he made use of, but he special ordered everything separately.