The days of one G5 being enough are dead! Here comes the

[chrispick]

Originally posted by Timeline:
HeavyPick ...

Need any help?

I sent you a private email. Be on the lookout.

[Timeline]

I'd tell you all what my exact set up is, but it involes 5 G5's networked wih NASA's main frame ... much too powerful for y'all.

LOL

...and if you told us you'd have ta kill us, right.

I can lock my mac through the Stargate, As long as Amanda Tapping is on the other side... hehe

http://www.scifi.com/stargate/characters/

[toodamnhip]

My system is running 5 G5's also, but it is powered by a bevy of gorgeous, naked brunettes. I am sorry, but they only work for me.

Otherwise, I would share

[Timeline]

You pig...

[toodamnhip]

I usually throw out the blonds when they cum my way. Let me know and I'll send you one!

[Rush909]

what's the topic again???

[filtertone]

Here's some info on my setup, for what it's worth. I moved from 3 G5s (all Dual 2 GHz) to 1 G5 (it's only a dual 2 Ghz) and as long as you've really got things tweaked (and this takes some thought, work, and money), you can do a lot. I used to have G5 #2 for VSL, and G5 #3 for EWQLSO, but then I gradually started investigating whether or not I could do it all in a single G5. Given, I am running DP 4.6 in DAE mode with mainly TDM effects, so I'm not putting any extra strain on the CPU with MAS effects, but all the VIs are host-based RTAS. My buffer is high (at 512) but because it's DAE I don't notice any latency. My Kontakt 2 DFD settings are right and I'm able to handle large projects with many VIs with ease. I have my sample libraries (VSL/Kontakt and EWQLSO among others) distributed over (4) SATA drives -- this has made a huge difference over my previous Firewire 800 drives. I learned that having the same libraries distributed over 4 FW800 drives compromised performance because, while the FW800 drives are surely fast enough on their own, in a setup with 4 of them they can clog and overload the Mac's single Firewire bus. (SATA does not have this problem.) Also, I upgraded to 4GB RAM.

Once I got this stuff taken care of, I can say that I now prefer working with a single computer, and my goal is to get by until the next G5 revision is released by Apple (hopefully this will be a dual dual core Mac, equivalent to 4 processors. But, I'm still amazed at what I can do with this single G5, and I'll say it again that you must have your system optimized for this to work. For example, initially, before my DFD setting were adjusted correctly, I was discouraged and thought that I'd have to stick with at least 2 of the G5s to get any work done, but after talking with NI tech support and trying different settings, I was able to get about 38 channels in Kontakt 2 (and this is true even with 75% large VSL and EWQLSO presets).

Most orchestral projects (as long as you don't need to have every instrument in the orchestra loaded and on call in you setup, which I used to think I HAD to have) have fewer than 40 MIDI tracks in the end, and since my effects are mostly TDM, this is working for me. I don't have to freeze any tracks except sometimes Ivory, which IS a processor hog. I can have about 32 tracks of Kontakt, plus one each of Stylus RMX, Ivory, Altered States, Virus Indigo, Xtreme FX, and MachFive (running about 8 channels). I can get almost anything done with this setup. Of course, I'm worried that I'll soon hit the wall, but right now it's working.

I think this setup could work well under MAS, as long as you are not using a lot of effects (and instead print them) and have your buffer set to 512 (if you can work at that setting, since 512 under MAS has more noticeable latency than 512 under DAE.)

<small>[ July 25, 2005, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: filtertone ]</small>

[Shooshie]

Originally posted by heavypick:
If two trucks help you haul crap faster than one, and fast crap-hauling is imperative, then you get two trucks.

This is a thread topic?

You see, THERE'S the problem. I spent all my money on these dang computers, and what I really needed all along was two trucks. Man, I'm putting on my Peterbilt hat and selling all this stuff. See you on the Interstate!

Shooshie

[chrispick]

Originally posted by Shooshie:

Originally posted by heavypick:
If two trucks help you haul crap faster than one, and fast crap-hauling is imperative, then you get two trucks.

This is a thread topic?

You see, THERE'S the problem. I spent all my money on these dang computers, and what I really needed all along was two trucks. Man, I'm putting on my Peterbilt hat and selling all this stuff. See you on the Interstate!

Shooshie

Ten-four, good buddy. Catch ya on the flipside.

[Jaysplace101]

Thanks Filtertone. What a great system!!! If I could go back and do it all over again, I'd buy all tdm plugs and go this route. But, buying all new plugs would be turbo expensive. Maybe MOTU will come out with the rumored PCI card that will host AU plugs. That would really take care of it for all of us. I'd pay good money for a card like that.... well... not too good of money, motu.... if you're listening.

j

[croyal]

I'm not a PT fan- BUT...
Digidesign recognizes limits of native processing in their non-TDM systems by instituting a 32 track limit. Maybe MOTU could define some DP recommended track limit (for G3, G4, G5), even though it can be exceeded at your own risk (unlike PT which doesn't give the choice.) The limit should leave overhead for plugs and audio quality. Means that additional CPUs could be used like farm cards (or Powercore firewire boxes).

Some folks want all possibilities of a project open until the very end- 60+ tracks with multiple VI's running in real-tme. Kinda like running multiple MIDI synths live to sequence at mixdown instead of committing synth parts to disk/tape before mixdown. I'm not sure if limitless is possible- the more bandwidth we have available the more we'll use. Certainly the programmers will use it if we don't. There are people who will complain about choking a 10 CPU G5 system- screaming that either Apple or MOTU should get their acts together.

Maybe everything in one box is as much of a myth as the truly "paperless office." Elegant dreams fueling our expectations. One CPU is enough with realistic expectations.

[Michael Canavan]

One thing people keep on mentioning that amazes me is buying a new revision of the G5 that comes out soon etc.....

[qo]

filtertone makes a great point about SATA drives vs FW800. IMHO. FW, as implemented by Apple, is a joke. It's horrendously bottlenecked at the system level.

You need to determine where your bottleneck(s) is(are), and there are four components to consider; CPU, memory, disk, and bus bandwidth (PCI and FSB). Developing a system to meet your needs depends on the sorts of projects in which you're typically involved. Worse case, is lots of VI's and samplers. because you're then involving all parts of the system. Samples gobble up RAM (or, if DFD, disk) and bus bandwidth. VI's gobble up CPU and bus. Straight-ahead audio is the best (lightest weight) case since it involves mostly disk/bus. There are subtleties though. For example, lower buffer sizes = more CPU interrupts = higher CPU utilization; even with a simple audio tracking setup.

If disk is the bottleneck (and, most of the time, it is since it's BY FAR the slowest "moving" part in a computer in terms of data handling), do yourself a favor and invest in a high-speed SATA drive like the Raptor 10K. Don't bother with FW drives, except for backup and other non-realtime tasks. It's not the FW drive, per se, that's the problem. Rather, it's Apple's puny system FW bandwidth that is the issue. The only case in which faster disk won't help is pure VI's a la Reactor, etc.

If you've got a G4, and can't afford a G5, then look into a PCI SATA controller. If you've got a G5, and your internal drive space is used up, then either look into internal harnesses that increase the ('f'ed up) 2-drive limit (really, 2 fricking drives in a tower!!?!?! What the F was Apple thinking???), or look into external SATA/SATA enclosures. By SATA/SATA, I mean enclosures in which a SATA drive can be installed AND the connection to the Mac is also SATA (as opposed to SATA/FW or SATA/USB2 which, IMHO, are worthless for realtime work).

Finally, when the new Macintels ship, make sure that you read a good analysis (or two) of the system architecture--including bus design and how much bandwidth is allocated to the various subsystems--written by independent sources, before forking over your cash. Remember the G5 1.6? Pity the poor souls that bought that piece if junk without understanding it's intrinsic limitations.

<small>[ July 25, 2005, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: qo ]</small>

[BKK-OZ]

I haven't upgraded my Fender acoustic for almost 25 years...

Maybe I should see about a 7th string housed in an external enclosure?

Qo, what sort of bandwidth should I look for?

[qo]

Originally posted by BKK-OZ:
IQo, what sort of bandwidth should I look for?

Heh, in that case, I'd recommend a wider stage perhaps to spread the band out and give that 7th string room to shine Yeah, second your point that old guitars are a welcome respite from Upgrade Hell.