1248 and Direct Hardware Playthrough

[Movies]

Hi, all.

I'm thinking of upgrading from my 896HD to a Thunderbolt device and have been looking pretty seriously at the 1248. I've read some stuff on this board indicating that Direct Hardware Playthrough mode doesn't work with the 1248. Right now, I don't use CueMix or any other mixing software apart from DP (8.07) and was hoping for a similar set-up with the 1248.

I called MOTU and chatted to them about it and they said that Direct Hardware Playthrough DOES work with the 1248, provided that its attendant browser-based software is running.

My questions are:

1. How big of an issue -- if there even is one -- is it to get DHP to work with the 1248?

and

2. What, exactly, is the browser-based software like and does the unit not work without it?

Thanks!

[EMRR]

Whoever you talked to doesn't know what they are talking about. None of the AVB interfaces are supported in DP, it cannot be selected in DP as of this date. I can't imagine how it would be supported in any other app.

[bayswater]

Surely the person at MOTU is saying that you can set up the internal mixer in the 1248 with the web browser application, and do the traditional "monitor from the mixer" thing instead of monitoring through your DAW, and get near zero latency.

As for the statement "None of the AVB interfaces are supported in DP", surely you mean that you can't connect it to your DAW via AVB over ethernet, and have to use USB, pretty much the way you use the older line of interfaces.

[Movies]

Bayswater: Exactly!

I just re-called MOTU and talked to the same person I talked to last time.

It was just a miscommunication. While it's true that DHP doesn't work with any of the AVB interfaces, he was saying that the browser-based software, with a one-time configuration, can set things up so the interface monitors similarly to how, say, the 896HD monitors with DHP.

If this is truly the case -- that I only have to crack open the software once to set things up -- the 1248 seems like it might be a solid option.

[bayswater]

If you never fired up Cuemix, my bet is you'll never have to use a browser to set up the 1248. Likely it comes from the factory with a default mix that simply routes all inputs to the first pair of outs, with controls set to unity, and a mirror the phone outs.

[Movies]

That would be a bonus!

The preamps seem better than the 896HD and the convertors are the same or in the ballpark that Apogee uses -- as far as Thunderbolt devices go, it seems like a pretty good deal!

[EMRR]

You have to use the software AVB mixer to do anything, unless you only record live shows, or other similar non-overdub situations. If you are in overdub mode, you will have to visit the AVB mixer to set monitor path for each source as you go, unless you can deal with the latency of monitoring through DP. I don't think most people can do that satisfactorily.

As for the statement "None of the AVB interfaces are supported in DP", surely you mean that you can't connect it to your DAW via AVB over ethernet, and have to use USB, pretty much the way you use the older line of interfaces.

No, you can connect AVB directly, or USB, or TB. What you can't do is monitor in any way with DP (or any other software I'm aware of) that resembles direct hardware playthrough, you have to use the AVB mixer (the new CueMix) to avoid latency. It's a total rethink for anyone who relied on DHP and never touched CueMix.

The manuals are all there for download, there's an extremely lengthy Gearslutz thread, tutorial videos from MOTU on Youtube, etc.

The interfaces sound fantastic.

I will continue to lobby for DHP to be added, to me using a secondary monitor mixer is a PITA.

[Movies]

I happened upon the Gearslutz thread a little while back -- I didn't get through all sixty-or-so pages, but it was definitely a big contributor to me being spooked by the new AVB interfaces.

I guess I'll stick with the ol' 896HD for now -- or until the 1248 starts working with DHP!

Thanks again for the info!

[Movies]

Also, and just out of curiosity:

EMRR, have you found a satisfactory solution for zero-latency monitoring using the AVB mixer with the 1248?

[EMRR]

I'm 16A/Monitor 8. Same in operation. I've just had to learn to use the AVB mixer. I spend a lot more time routing things and mirroring mixes so playback is 'the same' as input was. You learn to switch 'audio patch thru' settings depending on which part of the process you are in, never had to think about that one before. I've learned the hard way when 'monitoring through efx' you cannot open plugs and start setting them up while tracking: it glitches the recorded audio for some reason. I used to do all sorts of preset work while bands were tracking, now I can't touch a thing until the first playback pass. Net result, I'm much less efficient than I was with DHP. I can work 'satisfactorily', just not as well. Somewhere early on in the GS thread I desperately tried to come up with AVB routing options that would most closely mirror DHP, they all seem pretty crazy in hindsight. You just have to learn to use the AVB mixer. I hope DHP is still on the development radar, I still cannot believe it was overlooked, or considered inconsequential.

If the interfaces didn't sound so much better than the 24i/o I had before, I'd probably have dumped them out of frustration.

[Movies]

Gotcha. Thanks for the in-depth tour of your process. That definitely sounds like a lot of rigamarole!

Really, though, seeing as DHP probably only works with MOTU devices, ANY new Thunderbolt interface I get is going to require some sort of proprietary, non-DP software, right? I guess the trick is finding out which one is the least annoying!

[EMRR]

Correct, I'm afraid. Good luck. My frustration centers on the fact that MOTU should have gotten this one right with DP, given that no one else will. I don't call a loss of central features 'progress' no matter how many advances occur.

The routing is much like a Dante system, it and AVB will be competing standards for some time and I would expect similar routing grids in almost anything you consider. Mixer, just one more soft mixer. The channel compressor is still broken (controls interact with a large increase in output when taken out of bypass), and I find the decision to use an LA-2A type comp on busses to be questionable in theory and result. I use neither. The hpf and eq work fine. The reverb is serviceable but a lot of complaints around it from others.

[monkey man]

Doug's so all over this it's not funny.

... he was saying that the browser-based software, with a one-time configuration, can set things up so the interface monitors similarly to how, say, the 896HD monitors with DHP.

If this is truly the case -- that I only have to crack open the software once to set things up -- the 1248 seems like it might be a solid option.

This is what I've been counting on in my case too - a one-time set-up affair. The purchase is one more lay-buy payment away now, and I've still got the jitters...

... I hope DHP is still on the development radar, I still cannot believe it was overlooked, or considered inconsequential.

If the interfaces didn't sound so much better than the 24i/o I had before, I'd probably have dumped them out of frustration.

... and this is partly why.

Still no word over at BeerGutz as to DHP-coding progress...

[Movies]

Monkey Man: Please report back on your experience when you get your 1248!

[monkey man]

Oh, you can be 100% certain I will, Movies.

I expect to have to ask questions about setup (monitoring a bunch of hardware MIDI synths) using USB2. If issues such as glitching arise and can't be resolved, I'll be purchasing an AVB-capable ethernet card for the Mac.

The routing grid and indeed the mixing software as a whole is likely to stump me somewhere along the line... like all along it(!), so pathetic cries for help are probable in this area too.

Fears, surprises both good and bad, observations, musings and with any luck, lyrictittycal waxings shall be summarily dumped right here in the Unicorn paddock, mate. You can count on it.