Dither during export ?

[Klaus]

How to ? ( from 24 b project to 16b for CD )
Is DP's dithering in the menu also working during export ?
Or is a rebounce in order ?
And...
I haven't found dithering in AudioFinder...

Thanks for fast replies

and best regards

Klaus

[Don T]

Hello,
I put a MW limiter or other plug on the master bus (depending on what's needed) which has dither in it's tools. If a mix is going to CD, I dither to 16 bit when bouncing.

[monkey man]

Unless DP tells you it's adding it or gives you the option to turn it off, I'd assume it's not there.

What Don said is standard practise if using DP's plugs, from what I've read. You may need to apply it "offline" by selecting the soundbite and choosing dither from a menu. If there's no specific option for it, use the MW Limiter plug but only the dither option. Just make sure there's no gain reduction going on (check the meter) and you should be safe.

Note that, from memory, there's a 24/16bit option for the dither; choose 16 and you should be good to go.

EDIT: Just thought I'd mention that in fish keeping one can employ dither fish. Yes, that's really what they're known as. I've always found this hilarious. These are those that swim in open spaces "aimlessly", usually in schools. They're used to encourage shy fish which would otherwise hide all day to come out into the open where one can see and enjoy them.

These wandering, pea-brained fishes are neither hither nor thither, but rather, they dither.

[bayswater]

Dither fish don't last long in my pond. Raccoons get them.

[monkey man]

Ha!

Foxes destroy mine whilst trying to grab fish. They tip all my (underwater) gravel-filled plant pots over. The only way I can fix the situation is to catch all the fish, empty it completely, scrape all the substrate up and re-pot the plants. It's a right PITA and takes days.

[David Polich]

"Dither" is at the top of the drop-down "Audio" menu in DP. You can uncheck it to disable it.

I leave dither on when doing a real-time mixdown in DP, or when recording the output of a VI
to an audio track, or when merging soundbites. Or when doing anything within DP that involves bussing or folding down to a new track.

When I export a 24-bit stereo mix from the soundbites window, I turn dither off. I don't
do "mastering" in DP itself, I export a 24-bit mix out and open that in an audio editor for mastering (I'm still using Peak 6 for mastering).

[bayswater]

I leave dither on when doing a real-time mixdown in DP, or when recording the output of a VI to an audio track, or when merging soundbites. Or when doing anything within DP that involves bussing or folding down to a new track.

Why do you do this? Doesn't all this happen at 32 bit float? Or is there some truncation somewhere in these signal flows?

[FMiguelez]

I remember MagicD once saying that what the manual said about that dither option in the menu was incorrect. He explained exactly what it did and how to use it properly... Now, if I could find that ooooold thread....

[FMiguelez]

I only found a reference to it, no t the original...
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 78#p233055

MagicD said:
"Dither under the Audio menu is applied when DP creates an audio file.

There is a difference between DP creating an audio file or that audio file being created by MAS. For example, recording, rerecording, or bouncing is a MAS function. Pitch shifting, creating crossfades, printing a destructive effect, or merging audio are all DP functions.

When DP creates an audio file directly, it is going from the floating point number to either a 16 bit or 24 bit fixed integer sample. Rounding happens automatically.

The only difference between the dither in the Audio menu and the dither in the MW Limiter is that the Audio menu dither doesn't have the sub-option of noiseshaping."

[mhschmieder]

Don't forget, according to the DP user manual, the dithering option in the menu is about going from internal 32-bit depth to 24-bit (e.g.) when applying processing (or a bounce) that will get added as a new project audio track (and of course also when exporting outside of DP).

Oops, I see that FM already added that info by way of a Magic Dave quote. My mouse scroll wheel was going haywire so I missed a couple of the responses.

[Klaus]

I only found a reference to it, no t the original...
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 78#p233055

MagicD said:
"Dither under the Audio menu is applied when DP creates an audio file.

There is a difference between DP creating an audio file or that audio file being created by MAS. For example, recording, rerecording, or bouncing is a MAS function. Pitch shifting, creating crossfades, printing a destructive effect, or merging audio are all DP functions.

When DP creates an audio file directly, it is going from the floating point number to either a 16 bit or 24 bit fixed integer sample. Rounding happens automatically.

The only difference between the dither in the Audio menu and the dither in the MW Limiter is that the Audio menu dither doesn't have the sub-option of noiseshaping."

So in order to export a 24b bounce as 16b dithered, one has to switch dither on in the menu and export ?
And also when creating new files with DP ( or does rounding happen automatically also when dither in menu is off ? )
And bouncing to 24b file from 32b float ?
Sorry,

Thanks

Klaus

[monkey man]

I've always assumed one only has to add dither once, and this would be for a lower-bitrate mix file, for instance.

The way I see it, using it on multiple files within a project would only serve to increase noise levels as they collectively sum. Stair-stepped fade tails could be present on 50+ tracks and they would all be smoothed by a single application of dither on the mix.

Just my humble opinion based on way too much thought experimentation long ago. I've seen no reason to alter this perspective yet. Of course, I'm always open to education...

[outofhand]

The way I understood Dave's post was that if you're doing a bounce to disk, you have to add dither using a plugin. The audio menu dither option doesn't do anything if you're bouncing. The manual does not explain this fact correctly.

Also btw it's impossible to dither a 32-bit floating point audio stream, all you are doing is adding noise that doesn't actually do anything. As long as your signal isn't clipping, it's fine to bounce to 24bit without dither.

[outofhand]

Also btw it's impossible to dither a 32-bit floating point audio stream, all you are doing is adding noise that doesn't actually do anything. As long as your signal isn't clipping, it's fine to bounce to 24bit without dither.

Just to be super-clear, that's only if you're bouncing to 24bit. If you're going to 16, then yes do dither.

[dpg4macman]

I record and mix everything 24 bit. I never add dither. When it has to be put onto a cd then and only then will I dither from 24 bit to 16 bit. Let the mastering house do it.

My thoughts,

mvh