Peluso P12 (Classic AKG C12 stand-in) -- RECOMMENDED

[monkey man]

Gee Mark, that's awesome; I appreciate your sharing this so very much. Thank you!

Not much else to say then, is there? I'll see what the damage will be when I talk to the store tomorrow. Hopefully it'll understand if I choose to switch from the AKG they're waiting on / holding (don't know yet). This one will surely be dearer, so that'll help in this regard. Hopefully it'll be as simple as a couple more money orders (5 so far!) away. Fingers crossed...

Oh, and I'll see what they say about tube replacements and possible repairs/servicing down the track. If a return to the States is necessary, as much as this'd hurt to have to do, I'd probably have to forego the Peluso and opt for the next-best option, something I'd no doubt drill you about.

[mhschmieder]

Unfortunately, I can't offer any back-up plan for the P12 as nothing else caught my fancy except other similarly-priced (e.g. around $1400 to $1700) Peluso mics that I plan to add as alternate colors depending on singer or source material or instrument.

Some of the TLM mics are pretty good, but few of them are as good bang for buck or even much cheaper. I own the TLM102 and bought it for acoustic guitar primarily, but may not keep it forever once I buy more Peluso mics. I like it way better than the TLM103 but also like the TLM49 -- though I've opted to get the Peluso 2247 instead (similar design basis).

A good C414 would be the best backup strategy, actually, but it is very tricky to find the ones that are ideal for unhyped vocals (accounting for differing tastes, of course -- I am at a minimum referring to AKG's own marketing strategy with the remnants of the C414 lineup). If you can try one locally (apparently not) then you can gain more confidence whether your C414 reserve is still a wise move, and of course you do have the consideration of tube replacement (over a long period of time) with any tube mic. Many of those come from China though.

[monkey man]

Funny you should say all that, Mark.

I spent 2 hours on the blower with the dude (drummer, engineer, studio owner) today, and I figure I'm gonna go for the gold 414, with the silver to follow in a year or whatever.
Here's my reasoning:

1) The peluso's much more expensive here in Jungleville, especially since the Au$ has dipped for a second time of late to around 80+ cents US. This, on top of the fact that we're ripped off anyway down here when it comes to any, but especially American audio-gear imports.

2) If I need to sell it when cash-strapped, replacement could be an issue; this fella's not been around as long as AGK, and likely won't be in future (as long). I've heard the character can vary a little from mic to mic, which, if true, won't help either.

3) Repairs and tube replacement will both be at least a little more complicated than gettin' the AKG wholesaler on the blower, and of course there's "no" upkeep on the AKGs.

4) Any tube mic imparts more character, and, at least for now, I'd prefer to establish a benchmark for my voice using a tried-and-tested mic. The 103 sorta falls into this category too, but to a lesser extent obviously. A more truthful representation of my voice, especially if it cuts the mustard, will, IMHO, stand me in better stead long term; I don't want to "radically" change its timbre mid-career - not ideal for a "vocalist". If I can get it to sit in the mix sans tube assistance, all the better for me; cross grades to "better" mics will be more transparent IMHO, as long as they're not of the tube flavour. I'd like to think there's a U87 or the like in my distant (perhaps very distant) future. I figure that until I've had a hittoon or whatever, I'll just be a punk lookin' to establish himself, so in this regard the Peluso's arguably jumping the gun a little.

5) I won't need to warm the mic up for 15 minutes every time I wanna drop a phrase in or whatever. As I mentioned in your brass VI thread, I see myself more as an editor than a performer, which is one reason I've chosen to continue with the MIDI hardware method; that way I can tweak easily 'til my heart's content right up 'till mix down, which'll only require a single pass to render all those tracks. None of this futzing around with buffer sizes, track freezing and so on. It's kinda pathetic, I know, but I like to have (creative) options right up to that point; the mind just won't quit offering up suggestions...

6) Since I'm upgrading from the lowly, super-cheap Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro, resplendent with more knobs and switches than a space shuttle to a simple, HQ dual preamp (1073 DPA) which boasts pretty much... a gain knob with no output pot, no EQ and not even an HPF, it's a safe bet that this step alone will count for far more than any mic cross / upgrade one could conceive. Pity it won't be feeding a new MOTU AVB interface; it looks like the 24I/O system will have to suffice for the foreseeable future as the upgrade path from the 24I/Os appears to necessitate ditching the 'puter, wholesale changes to my rack configuration and design and of course, there'd be all this expansion chassis stuff and so on to factor in as well. Seems to me it's something only worth taking on in several years when a computer upgrade perhaps becomes necessary. Hopefully by then Darth Vader's helmet won't be the only option either and I'll be able to continue happily stuffing the thing with cards and drives as I so enjoy doing. Hopefully I don't lose too much mojo going into the 24I/Os or introduce too much phase distortion (I'm super-sensitive to phase issues, and believe that minimising them will make for more focussed mixes as well as easier mixing).

There were other reasons too, but I can't remember them; I managed to come up with many justifying this position, whereas the same can't be said for the (awesome, I'm sure) Peluso counter-argument.

Thank you ever so very, very much for sharing all you did, Mark. You know I value your opinions extremely highly, don't you? The process of choosing a 2nd mic has caused much angst and gnashing of teeth since way back in August, so fingers crossed I don't regret going the more bog-standard route in this case. Thank you again, mate!

[mhschmieder]

Just remember, the U87 and U89 are derived indirectly from each other and from the earlier U47/M49 or whatever those letter/number combinations were (and tone or the other goes back into production now and then). So don't disregard the TLM49 as an option.

It's funny about the transparency thing, but I find the tube mic from Peluso to be more balanced than any condenser I've worked with, but then I'm talking mics below $800. I was very anti-tube mic for all the reasons you mentioned, and it was a hard sell to get me past my biases. I was quite relieved when the P12 arrived and it sounded more natural than any other.

A smooth rolloff at the ends (typically imparted by tubes, but also by ribbons) is OK by me; what I don't like about MOST condensers is the sawtooth bumps in the upper frequencies, which radically change the vocal character.

All the same, where you live has a big impact on the relative bang-for-buck of different brands, and I certainly wouldn't recommend anything blindly without considering that factor. We have a few brands that aren't good buys in the USA but are elsewhere, but overall I think we have it off easy compared to a bunch of other countries, regarding import fees and exchange rates.

[monkey man]

Hmm... thank you for the Neumann tip, Mark. I surely will bear that in mind when the time eventually comes; it'll be a looong way off though if I'm to be realistic.

Crikey! Sawtooth bumps? Geez. The fella I spoke to claimed that whilst the high end of the AKGs is a tad "harder" and more "present" than the 103's, it wasn't much more so and that, more than anything, it helped bring the programme material forward. I figured this could turn out to be a bonus as, let's face it, the more distinct the 103 and 414 sound from each other, the greater benefit there should be in employing one for lead vox and the other for BUVs. Further to that, the 103 might be better suited to funk, ballads and R&B where the perhaps slightly harder, more present AKGs may suit rock, EDM or whatever.

I'll still hanker after a lovely tube mic, but, as with the U87/9/47 / M49, a beastie of this (from my perspective) esoteric ilk will simply have to wait.

As always, thank you ever so much for sharing your esteemed thoughts, Mark. Bravo!

[mhschmieder]

The 414 is probably smoother than the collection of condensers I just sold. The worst offender was probably the (admittedly bang-for-buck for its low price) the Aventone multi-pattern small diaphragm condenser pair.

[monkey man]

Yipee. That's not so bad then.

One thing, Mark: I'm having trouble deciding which to buy first (the other will follow a year or more later), the gold or the standard. They share the same RRP (now almost double what it was a year or two ago), cradle mount and so on.

The only difference between them, I'm told, is the air (above the sibilant range) of the gold, and the fact that, in the opinion of the fella I mentioned, there's a difference in overall tone as well, but not a great one. IOW, the silver's probably more accurate overall, and would therefore colour my voice less. The gold OTOH, might help with articulation and bringing it to the fore.

I'd like to get both eventually so I can mic my lil' brother's amp for him with a '57 and the silver 414 for riddum parts and possibly with the gold one for leads to help them stand out.

Thoughts? Specumalations?

[mhschmieder]

Unfortunately, I don't have first-hand experience with these models. I think it was the ULS that was so well-loved (and no longer available), but I don't have time right now to once again try to make sense out of that product range and what is still current. I've kind of had it with AKG at this point, and am not happy they now run Crown Audio. Nevertheless, I love my K702 headphones.

I listened to Sound Pure's shootouts and drew a distinct conclusion about the silver vs. gold debate, but in the end, felt it was worth the extra dough to splurge on the Peluso as I am currently happy with my existing mic collection for overhead purposes (which means mostly drums these days). I needed to focus on vocals first as I didn't really ever have an ideal vocal mic (except the RE20, which is always my backup plan).

The C414 is a more versatile mic, overall. I no longer care about that, myself. I've sold a lot of mics lately, but still have slightly over 30 altogether. Up to 20 of those are primarily dedicated to drums and don't move. For the most part, I like to have single-purposed mics (although I may broadly define that term, such as a mic that is good for any brass or woodwind instrument).

[monkey man]

Thank you Mark.

I hear you. The 414's never been a vocal-focussed mic, of course; I just figured I couldn't go too far wrong with it, especially as I have the 103.

I listened to Sound Pure's shootouts and drew a distinct conclusion about the silver vs. gold debate...

Which was? This is what I'm looking for, mate, if it's not too much trouble.

Thank you in advance.

[mhschmieder]

Oh, I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure the 414 has been used a fair amount for vocals; it's just that it's much better known for overheads and guitar amp miking.

Once I decided on the P12, I put the rest out of mind; sorry about that. Even if you don't want to deal with the prerequisite "personal sales rep" at SoundPure to get the identities of what's in their audio demos though, the ones that have actual descriptions are quite useful. They only provide descriptions on product they really feel strongly positive about, which is a hint too.

I am glad to have added them to my preferred vendor list, and they also turn out to be a great source for acoustic instruments and especially certain manufacturers that have limited distribution and/or a lot of products that have limited runs that only show up at a select handful of primary resellers such as SoundPure, Elderly, and a few others.

[mhschmieder]

Just to reiterate, as everyone involved is now thrilled with the final masters, I can state quite confidently that the Peluso P-12 mic is a huge time-saver at production time, as I literally needed no processing at all, and only applied a HPF "just in case" (for low rumble, which wasn't present anyway) and a VERY mild 0.5 dB wide-Q boost in the 1-3k "presence" range.

Other than that, I did send the vocals to Eventide's UltraVerb for Plate Reverb, but that's no fault of the mic. What a marvelous reverb that is too; one of my best purchases last year.

If I can get caught up with my accounts (almost a month behind!), I'll see if I have the budget for the 2247 SE tribute to the Neumann U47, to complement this AKG C-12 wannabe.

[monkey man]

Great news, Mark, and well done for having such satisfied customers, bro'.

Still doing my best to ignore the P12. It's good to know that there'll perhaps be that option one day... when I'm rolling in hittoon moola!

[mhschmieder]

Yeah, I heard the Aussie dollar is quite weak right now, but I haven't checked directly. At least you have several high quality home-grown companies while your exchange rate is weak.

[mhschmieder]

MM, if it makes you feel any better, the C414 gold that you bought is apparently a very recent v2 upgrade, and they claim it is more ideal for vocals than other recent 414-series mics and that it comes the closest to the classic C12 (that my Peluso P12 is modeled after) of any C414 from the past few decades.

I hope it lives up to the hype and that you find it as hassle-free in the mix as I am finding my P12.

[mhschmieder]

Just wanted to reiterate that I'm at the mastering phase and nothing has changed regarding the vocals. We needed up using no processing at all except for some light Plate Reverb (we recorded in a fairly anechoic environment).

Zero EQ. No compression, limiting, etc. A pure signal path. Time is money.