How much can DP handle?

[Julia123]

Please excuse my lack of tech knowledge. I'm trying to get a real grasp of what Digital Performer actually handles as compared to what my computer and hard drives are handling. (firewire 800). I've been carefully watching my Activity monitor as I add large sounds to my DP projects. I see it shows I still have plenty of RAM and plenty of CPU room but my pops and drop out's still occur when I start adding in hungry VI's. I just can't seem to get a grasp on how much DP itself is involved. I see mentions of DP's limits of RAM usage but am not quite sure how to measure that.

Instead of a new Mac Pro or iMac i7 computer, should I be trying VE PRO or something similar? Or perhaps pull out an old Mac Book Pro I have, (2.06 ghz I think) add some RAM to that and use it as a slave? (Very shaky on the Slave concept but I just printed out a 52 page manual on setting up & managing large templates - it's a bit over my head still.) The last thing I want to do is spend the big bucks on the latest greatest and have it not solve my issues. If DP is limited as far as running VI's and lots of audio from within no matter which computer I choose, maybe there is another way I should be setting things up. Thanks.

[Kubi]

Was at a lecture recently by Joe Trapanese on this (and other) topics. He's on Logic, but the concept stays the same: I asked him why he uses VE Pro in the age of 64bit applications and OS, and he says it's for performance reasons - when hosting inside Logic, "Logic crawls to a halt". So even within the same machine, he hosts all VIs in VE Pro and has Logic handling MIDI only. My (limited) experience in DP was very similar (although most of that was before DP went 64bit. I say limited experience because I rarely use large sample setups.)

I would consider getting more RAM sooner rather than later - 12GB seems little. And SSDs are also a great way to speed up performance - although probably of comparatively limited use as externals in a FW800 setting. Internal SATA (so internal drives) and eSATA or Thunderbolt are much faster. Not sure if/how you can set up eSATA on an iMac.

So, try VE Pro in the same machine, and you should see immediate improvement in your performance. Expand your RAM if you can. Switching to an SSD for internal HD should make things generally faster, although I'm not sure how much it would improve this particular issue.

Hope this helps.

[Timeline]

Nice reply Kubi. I would just add that Firewire 800 os a limit only if your outputting more than 24 tracks at a time, of course that would take three IO's but I think thats a safe limit at 96K 24bit. DOn't think 192SR is doable on firewire with 24 tracks. I would like to know more about how VE pro works with DP or is it a stand alone?

[FMiguelez]

I totally agree with Kubi.
Actually, I'd suggest taking it one step further and get a slave computer and connect it to DP via VE Pro. That way most of the hard work is done by the slave, easing DP's burden considerably.

Either method will improve performance. But the best performance comes with a higher price tag: the extra computer. (Perhaps you have an oldish computer sitting around already? Or maybe someone can lend you one for a couple of days, so you can actually try it and see if you like it? Even 4-5 year old iMac will do...)

After yesterday with my "nice and quiet night" (see my new thread), DP and VE Pro work wonderfully together. DP8.06 runs as smooth as silk.

I couldn't dream of loading my full template in my new master computer. There's no way it could handle it (I don't think even the new Mac Pro could), so my current 3 salves do most of the work and save the day .

Also, consider that an extra computer gives you certain options if you work under tight deadlines and disaster occurs (you can at least work with one computer in case one breaks at the least convenient moment).
Some may counter-argue that slaves create more managing work (updates, maintenance, learning all those new concepts), but the little extra effort is easily managed with careful planning and some testing. The benefit is too great to give up for a small amount of extra work at setup time (mostly a one-time thing only), and learning about (and applying) new technology can not possibly be a bad thing.

I'd say try the master-slave approach. We'll be here if you run into trouble

[frankf]

I'm currently doing mock ups for a film I'm scoring and using 4 instances of Kontakt 4, 2x Kontakt 5, 2x Omnisphere, Ivory, Stylus RMX, 2x Altiverb, and MasterVerb, various track plug-ins, busses to auxes for each VI output. I disable unused tracks. I run at 128 or 256 buffer (1024 for mixing), and stream samples from 2 SSDs plus Boot SSD. No VEP since DP 64 bit. My system is in my signature. It runs smoothly. Very happy here. Just sayin'


Frank Ferrucci

[HCMarkus]

I run sessions similar to what Frank describes, maybe a couple fewer VIs, all within DP8 64 bit, and the buffer can usually sit at 128 without a problem. Disabling unused VI's (uncheck the round blue button in Tracks Window) is a good strategy... set up your template with everything, but only enable what is needed in each particular piece.

I am also running multiple SSDs (4) for System/Programs, Projects, and all but a few seldom-used VI's.

[Julia123]

Thanks all! I'm liking the slave idea as a test and I do have an old Mac Book Pro. I still would have to purchase VE Pro. My computer only has USB 2.0 and Firewire 800 so I am permanently limited with that. I REALLY have to get a new computer soon anyway I'm thinking. I've got a week vacation away next week so I'll keep trying to educate myself in my leisure time before I start experimenting. I might end up with the computer first, and be prepared for it NOT to completely fix things (less of a let down - ha) and also have the VE Pro lined up with some new orchestral sounds that I'm really lacking anyhow. I hope they have another sale soon. Thanks again.

[Killahurts]

I might end up with the computer first, and be prepared for it NOT to completely fix things (less of a let down - ha) and also have the VE Pro lined up with some new orchestral sounds that I'm really lacking anyhow. I hope they have another sale soon. Thanks again.

VE Pro is one of the best software investments I ever made.. when I made it.. I run a single slave machine now (used to be 2), but ultimately I will migrate everything over to the single machine and, hopefully, everything in DP. 64 bit has made it possible now, but it will take me a while because the act of composing in my career is ongoing, and can't be ground to a halt for technology.

Julia, my advice is to get the biggest, baddest monster computer you can.. If you can't get it in the budget yet, VE Pro will help, even on the same machine, or a modest slave.

[Killahurts]

So, try VE Pro in the same machine, and you should see immediate improvement in your performance. Expand your RAM if you can. Switching to an SSD for internal HD should make things generally faster, although I'm not sure how much it would improve this particular issue.

And this ^^^

Also great advice, I think. More RAM never hurts!

[Kubi]

I'm currently doing mock ups for a film I'm scoring and using 4 instances of Kontakt 4, 2x Kontakt 5, 2x Omnisphere, Ivory, Stylus RMX, 2x Altiverb, and MasterVerb, various track plug-ins, busses to auxes for each VI output. I disable unused tracks. I run at 128 or 256 buffer (1024 for mixing), and stream samples from 2 SSDs plus Boot SSD. No VEP since DP 64 bit. My system is in my signature. It runs smoothly. Very happy here. Just sayin'


Frank Ferrucci

How full are the Kontakt instances? As in, how many VI's per instance, and how much RAM footprint per instance? Just curious. Thanks!!!

[frankf]

Kubi, the Kontakt instances are mostly organized by major orchestral sections with about 8 Instruments in each. I have a miscellaneous percussion instance and another that I load with project specific instruments. So a Multi may contain several violin section articulations, but they are not all playing at the same time. I don't know how to see the RAM footprint unless I test manually by removing an instance and looking at the difference in Activity Monitor. Is there an app for this? I also don't use a lot of EQs, Compressors, etc when doing mock ups which helps with the CPU load.


Frank Ferrucci