superior drummer and multi ouputs

[prjacobs]

Hi all,
Perhaps a very simple question, but what's the easiest way to set up superior and DP to record multi tracks of drums. I need to print these all as separate tracks.

Thanks,
Paul

[jloeb]

Honestly, the easiest and best way by far is to use Superior's built-in bounce feature.

- Prints everything to its own track with or w/o bleed as you choose

- Unlike real-time bouncing, it uses ALL of the samples you paid for when you bought it

[FMiguelez]

Agreed.
With bouncing you can get few or lots of resulting tracks, depending on the options you select. It's quick and it works.

However, I really really prefer to have the tracks ready to record in real time, for many reasons (i.e., it's a pice of cake to introduce DP effects to any channel that way, and printing them is a click away if set properly).

What I am currently experimenting with is using X-Drums for cymbals, and getting them separated from the rest of the OH and ambience mics, so I'm able to control their panning independently. The way it is by default, I find the exaggerated panning of the cymbals in the OH mics very irritating.
I still haven't found the perfect solution, but I think I'm on the way.

So I really like sending individual outputs from SD to audio tracks (not aux tracks) in DP. It's easy to print them and mess with them in real time.
I like getting tracks for kick, snare, toms, hats, OHs, ambience, X-Drums, and 1 or 2 miscellaneous tracks.

Anyone wants to comment on another way of dealing with SD cymbals' panning exaggeration?

[rentadrummer]

However, I really really prefer to have the tracks ready to record in real time, for many reasons (i.e., it's a pice of cake to introduce DP effects to any channel that way, and printing them is a click away if set properly).

What I am currently experimenting with is using X-Drums for cymbals, and getting them separated from the rest of the OH and ambience mics, so I'm able to control their panning independently. The way it is by default, I find the exaggerated panning of the cymbals in the OH mics very irritating.
I still haven't found the perfect solution, but I think I'm on the way.

I agree. The wide cymbal panning is one of the few things I don't like and have occasionally initiated a second instance of S2, rather than using the X-Drums feature. In some cases I just found it easier to work with than setting up the mics for the X-Drums, and it also offers the option of reversing the panning if you prefer a crash cymbal on the opposite side from where it would normally appear.

[FMiguelez]

I agree. The wide cymbal panning is one of the few things I don't like and have occasionally initiated a second instance of S2, rather than using the X-Drums feature. In some cases I just found it easier to work with than setting up the mics for the X-Drums, and it also offers the option of reversing the panning if you prefer a crash cymbal on the opposite side from where it would normally appear.

X-Drums are fine, but now that you mentioned it, your solution seems to be the easiest. Compared to a full blown extra instance, X-Drums would seem complicated and lacking.

Hmmmm... Another buch of tracks for my template

RentADrummer, please tell me:
I know it depends on a lot of things and blah, blah, but usually, how do you like panning your cymbals? What positions feel more natural to you, as a drummer?

Say, if total stereo width is from 9:00 to 3:00 (1500 hours), where would you place them? Around 11:00 to 2:00, perhaps? Just reduce the width so it's not so pronounced?

And do you that mostly with the OHs, or do you also pan the ambience mics (which would only contain cymbal sounds)?? Usually, the ambience mics sound more balanced as they are...

[FMiguelez]

Hi all,
Perhaps a very simple question, but what's the easiest way to set up superior and DP to record multi tracks of drums. I need to print these all as separate tracks.

BTW, if you want very clear info on this, I suggest this tutorial. Scott will show you all the tricks and possibilities. Some people find his style and strong southern accent distracting and annoying, but the guy definitely knows his stuff. Personally, I find it fun and refreshing...

http://www.groove3.com/str/superior-dru ... ained.html

They also have a tutorial for PC there as well.

[kgdrum]

FM: "if total stereo width is from 9:00 to 3:00 (1500 hours), where would you place them? Around 11:00 to 2:00, perhaps? Just reduce the width so it's not so pronounced?"

fwiw I usually pan 11:00 to 1:00, I agree the extreme panning most edrum programs set as default sound artificial,whether it be cymbals or drums.

[rentadrummer]

I agree. The wide cymbal panning is one of the few things I don't like and have occasionally initiated a second instance of S2, rather than using the X-Drums feature. In some cases I just found it easier to work with than setting up the mics for the X-Drums, and it also offers the option of reversing the panning if you prefer a crash cymbal on the opposite side from where it would normally appear.

X-Drums are fine, but now that you mentioned it, your solution seems to be the easiest. Compared to a full blown extra instance, X-Drums would seem complicated and lacking.

Hmmmm... Another buch of tracks for my template

RentADrummer, please tell me:
I know it depends on a lot of things and blah, blah, but usually, how do you like panning your cymbals? What positions feel more natural to you, as a drummer?

Say, if total stereo width is from 9:00 to 3:00 (1500 hours), where would you place them? Around 11:00 to 2:00, perhaps? Just reduce the width so it's not so pronounced?

And do you that mostly with the OHs, or do you also pan the ambience mics (which would only contain cymbal sounds)?? Usually, the ambience mics sound more balanced as they are...

Regardless of how you pan, from audience perspective or drummer's perspective, S2 puts the ride cymbal all the way to either side, and if I'm not mistaken, the crashes are also to the extreme edges of panning-world. Whether I set up a second instance, or try to narrow the panning slider on the OH, my goal is to move the cymbals closer to where I pan the toms, more like you'd actually hear a real drum kit. The ride cymbal would be just outside the second tom on the kick drum. One crash might be slightly to the side of the ride cymbal, or just outside the floor tom, and the other to the side of the hi hat. The way S2 has the cymbals panned it makes me picture someone having to leap off the drum throne to hit the cymbals, or the drummer has really long arms.

I don't do much actual mixing, so I can't give you a good answer about panning the ambience mics. I just try to set up the kit so when I'm recording or listening, pieces of the kit are where I expect them to be.

Using a second instance brings up another issue. I don't do it that often, but I think using two instances will require setting up Device Groups. I might be confusing that with the need for Device Groups when naming tracks in the Drum Editor, but unless you copy the MIDI file to two tracks for playback, I can't remember another way to trigger two instances from the same MIDI file. I use templates 99% of the time, so I seldom have a need to set any of this up from scratch. And it's a good thing.

[jloeb]

Do keep in mind that unless you're running a monster of a setup than can handle unlimited layers and full bleed in realtime, you aren't getting the full realism benefit of those tens of gigabytes that Superior and SDX libraries include, whereas by using built-in bounce, you do.

If you have fx chains set up, you can just drop the bounce output into that track or tracks. Easy.

There's also nothing stopping you from using X-drums or changing panning to your preference. Built-in bounce should observe and use all of your settings.

[FMiguelez]

KGDrum and RentADrummer, thanks for your answers and thoughts

JLoeb, you have a good point!

But IIRC, at least one of the SD Bounce options makes the bounced files sound different to what you are actually using in the loaded SD VI, correct? I think this was because of the extra bleeding samples you mentioned, yes? I'm not sure I'd like that.

But AFAIK, you also have at least 2 ways of getting the bounced files sound exactly as what comes out of the loaded VI... Or something (time to recheck the manual, I suppose). Has that been your experience?

[jloeb]

Yes, you can choose to bounce through the mixer, which will match what you hear in realtime in terms of bleed levels and will print the onboard fx.
You can alternatively choose to crank up the flexibility manyfold by printing two separate files, direct & bleed, for each mic.
You might also be interested in splitting the OH using the split mic option, which gives each cymbal its own output file so you can position them as you see fit post-bounce.