Newcomer pondering a switch from Logic

[Acelera]

Hi folks,

First of all, I apologise if this has been asked recently. I'm increasingly irritated with Logic for a number of reasons and out of all the competition, DP seems to be the one I would consider.

Is there any kind of guide for transient users?

Will I be able to swallow the learning curve easily? I've used Logic for the best part of 6 years.

What's the easiest way to approximate Logic's method of track arranging in DP?

Any tips or wisdom will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance,

Acelera

[Aramis]

Hi!
Recently , I have tried to learn or figure how to use Cubase , Nuendo on the PC and I have got a look at Logic Express .... I am using DP since version 3 ......
I have to admit that since day one I have understood easily how to do things with DP ....So you may translate that in being friendly user ....
Despite the fact that maybe DP lacks some of the other sequencers , I still consider DP the easiest to learn ....
So my advice is ... do not try to compare or to do things the same way in DP than in other sequencers ....
Try to get the MOTU philosophy first ....
There is a good DVD on how to use DP ....

Aramis

[Frodo]

I agree. DP is easiest to learn-- and to work with overall. Every DAW has its problems and learning curves, and I find that each one offers some advantages and disadvantages depending upon how you work.

Overall, my vote has always been for DP-- although I used Logic and Cubase for years. While there are features in DP that I hope will come to make even easier to use, I must say that DP is the most intuitive.

I like Aramis' phrase-- "try to get the MOTU philosophy". Logic and Cubase do thrive on a very different philosophy. What I like most about DP is the fact that I do not spend nearly as much time trying to figure out how it works-- nor do I waste time trying to remember how it works. It's methods are easy to remember, and therefore one spends more time creating and less time wondering.

I still use Logic, so this is not meant as a bash either way. Most all of my work right now is in DP. Logic is good for some things which are not compatible with DP, such as certain important sample libraries available only via EXS-24.

For more info---

Resource Links:
Producing Music With Digital Performer
Digital Performer Power!
MOTU Training DVD for DP 4.6

Good luck, Acelera!

[daveyboy]

Having bought Logic this year some things that drive me crazy are:
1)No multiple takes per track, you have to make a new track in order to do a new take.
2)No multiple mixes. You have to save your file under a new name in order to keep your mixes organized.
3) You need a special tool to do any audio editing plus there's a limit on the zoom of the waveform, very clunky.
4) Can't process individual soundbites with a plugin without doing a bounce to disk.
5) No trim function on the mixer.
6) To access a multitimbral VI such as Kontakt takes a little work in the environment to get it setup. To automate volume and pan takes even more work in the environment. In DP it's a now brainer.

I say get the competitive upgrade to DP for $329 and judge for yourself. No reason not to use both. I actually like Logic, just not for use with my clients unless they have a track already in Logic that needs work. There's no competition in terms of the amazing VI's and plugins that Logic gives you plus it seems pretty "snappy". I look at them as tools. The stuff I do sounds the same in either software. If you're happy where you are then that's groovy.

[Dragonwind]

I felt I should address this as a long time Logic and DP user.

Having bought Logic this year some things that drive me crazy are:
1)No multiple takes per track, you have to make a new track in order to do a new take.

No but there is a way to auto generate tracks on cycle record and a simple SHIFT-RETURN will create a new tack with the same settings. It is just a different way of working. I think SX has the best solution here.

2)No multiple mixes. You have to save your file under a new name in order to keep your mixes organized.

You are correct here but that is hardly a show stopper.

3) You need a special tool to do any audio editing plus there's a limit on the zoom of the waveform, very clunky.

All the way to sample level is a limit? How close do you need to get? What tool are you referring to to do editing? The curser automatically changes depending where on the object it is pointed. I like the fade handles in DP better but otherwise both achieve the same level of editing.

4) Can't process individual soundbites with a plugin without doing a bounce to disk.
5) No trim function on the mixer.

True for #4 but there is a key command to open external wave editor and works quite well. As for #5 there are other ways to increase gain if that is what you are after. Maybe I am not understanding what you mean.

6) To access a multitimbral VI such as Kontakt takes a little work in the environment to get it setup. To automate volume and pan takes even more work in the environment. In DP it's a now brainer.

Correct and incorrect. You can either simply just set the channel to ALL for the track with the Kontakt plugin and change the channel of your controller or yes you do have to go to the environment. Once it is set up is is a breeze. (The other method is easier).
There is nothing that has to be set up in the environment to do automation in Logic. It is a simple as switching on the automation. It is just as easy as DP here.

In the end they both are fantastic apps. DP's included pitch correction is great and there are other things that make it nice and other things that will piss you off.

What someone (I think from this forum) once said is that before yo switch apps try learning about something that you didn't know your current app could do. I can't tell you how helpful the tips here have been and all the Logic things I have learned over time. Every week or so there is something else that is discovered.

Of course you could be like those of use with both!
Chris

[gramjess]

As both a Logic and DP user I must say the realtime recording MIDI as well as
Audio in the track is why I prefer DP which I cannot do in Logic for a virtual instrument Audio unit So bus out of any plugin say bus 1 and 2 of macfive or halion say bus 3 and 4 etc choose the the MIDI plugin output after creating a MIDI track then an AUX trax then a Audio track using the DP bus in 1 and 2 for Macfive and say bus in 3 and 4 for halion on the tracks page and wowla record both the MIDI and audio at the sametime of the plugin. Now in Logic you have to either bounce out the MIDI or export all tracks as audio but cannot record the plugins audio as well as MIDI so perhaps I am wrong but I cannot record both an exs 24 to MIDI and audio at the same time - Now if you read score and play at the same time this saves both time and money. Logic 's Automation window looks better than DP and score windows as well - so OMF between both and you have the best of both worlds. Why is MOTU better I think because they integrate their own hardware as well with MAS while Steinberg and Logic maybe the Apples are not ripe yet

[Acelera]

The built-in VI's in Logic are something I am using less and less these days as I have a healthy collection of MIDI hardware so that's not where the deal would break for me.

Thanks for your input thus far... all of you!

[giles117]

Each has it's own greatness or weakness.

For in house MIDI production, I use Logic. As soo as it comes to me tracking vocals or anything else audio, I RUN to DP.

If I am tracking bands with a combi of MIDI and audio, I use DP.

Basically I use DP 75% of the time and Logic 25% of the time.

They both have their place. I had CuBase SX3 for over a year and sold it 2 weeks ago. Hated that program.

I Love Logics Instrument tracks vs DP's implementation. Logic is more processor friendly than DP.

So welcome DP in as an awesome addition to your toolset.

[Dragonwind]

As both a Logic and DP user I must say the realtime recording MIDI as well as
Audio in the track is why I prefer DP which I cannot do in Logic for a virtual instrument Audio unit So bus out of any plugin say bus 1 and 2 of macfive or halion say bus 3 and 4 etc choose the the MIDI plugin output after creating a MIDI track then an AUX trax then a Audio track using the DP bus in 1 and 2 for Macfive and say bus in 3 and 4 for halion on the tracks page and wowla record both the MIDI and audio at the sametime of the plugin. Now in Logic you have to either bounce out the MIDI or export all tracks as audio but cannot record the plugins audio as well as MIDI so perhaps I am wrong but I cannot record both an exs 24 to MIDI and audio at the same time - Now if you read score and play at the same time this saves both time and money. Logic 's Automation window looks better than DP and score windows as well - so OMF between both and you have the best of both worlds. Why is MOTU better I think because they integrate their own hardware as well with MAS while Steinberg and Logic maybe the Apples are not ripe yet

+

What the heck are you trying to say?

[Dragonwind]

The built-in VI's in Logic are something I am using less and less these days as I have a healthy collection of MIDI hardware so that's not where the deal would break for me.

Thanks for your input thus far... all of you!

Here are some things that I find annoying in DP and I wish they would address.

1) CPU usage is far worse. The explanation is lengthy as to why Logic can have a lot more happening on playback. The only time they are equal is when playing a VI live. Playback is an entirely different issue. If you have a really fast G5 then this is a moot point.

2) Always having to render VIs to audio before you can bounce. Talk about a PITA!

3) No folder tracks. SX has the prize here - collapsable folders that you can put all kinds of tracks into. Logic is something similar.

4) "Retrospect Record" or "Capture last take as recording" (used for MIDI). Say you were improvising while playing back a sequence and loved what you did. In SX or Logic you could simple click this command and you get a track of MIDI as though you were in record. DP needs this!

5) No vertical zoom on the arrange page.

6) No Stereo interleaved files

...and a few other minor things.

What is great that is different about DP is

1) Pitch correction built in!

2) Easy tempo generation (for film scoring).

3) Great audio editing

4) Chunks!

5) Simple MIDI routing

and a few other minor things.

As you can see they both have their plusses and minuses. It really boils down to what you do most and what you prefer. If you compose a lot, then I feel Logic is the better app. If you are mainly recording audio I wouldn't even bother with Logic.

[Nama]

I••™m not 100% sure, but I think you can get discount if you're switching from Logic. Check out motu's site.

[blue]

2) Always having to render VIs to audio before you can bounce. Talk about a PITA!

That is the long way of doing it. If you route your VIs to an audio track, you can essentially do a real time bounce in one step. Not only does this save time, it allows you to hear the final mix as it's being captured.

[giles117]

Blue, that is 1 step too many.

Logic offers a real time or an offline bounce. so your VI's are ive during the bounce if you want to hear the bounce or if not they are live during the offline bounce.

Freeze Track implementation in DP needs to be bettered. Nice Idea, but Logic kills DP in that regard. Hit a star (the freeze button), press play, and a few seconds later... done. It does a freeze in an offline fashion Not realtime as DP does.

Even a processor intensive session can be frozen pretty quickyl in Logic.

But as the previous poster said and as I have said. Sequeincing/Composition....Logic. Audio Production....DP all Day Long.

That is why I use both.

[Dragonwind]

But as the previous poster said and as I have said. Sequeincing/Composition....Logic. Audio Production....DP all Day Long.

That is why I use both.

Now you have me curious as to how you are using both. I have recently seen how some composers send their outs from the MIDI/VI mac (say running Logic or Cubase) into Pro Tools. Are you doing the same thing just substituting PT with DP?
Thanks
Chris

[giles117]

Nah I do my sequencing in Logic, freeze the tracks, transfer them into DP and add all the vocals.

If I need to move the New Audio tracks back to Logic for more sequenicng I merely BTD the audio Tracks. And move them back into DP (like grouped Vox or Stereo submix of live instruments)