CueMix FX Reverb : What are rooms A to E ?

[Gone To Lunch]

In my CueMix Reverb, in my 828 Mk3, There are five room options A through to E. The manual says on p95 'You can choose between several types of rooms. These are acoustic models for simulating these different types of spaces.' But when I go through them, I do not hear any difference in the reverb coming out ?

What then is the difference between these rooms, or am I missing something ?

[Torben Scharling]

Bump...someone must know?!

[Babz]

This is why CueMix FX is a total joke. The advertising hype makes it sound like you're getting a little Lexicon hardware reverb built into the unit. And you almost do! But then they leave you with sparse documentation, opaque names, no presets, no way to save user presets.... There are so many things about CueMix that are inspired in concept, and like 90% there, but then they drop the ball on the last 10%.

Couldn't they have at least given us something like "Big Room/Small Room", "Warm Room/Dark Room", instead of just "A, B, C..."? I just picked one, spent some time adjusting the 7-8 different controls, and now look at it like I've got a basic reverb I can throw in the cans in a pinch. But had they just gone that extra 10%, it could have been so much more. <sigh>

Babz

[Gone To Lunch]

This is why CueMix FX is a total joke. The advertising hype makes it sound like you're getting a little Lexicon hardware reverb built into the unit. And you almost do! But then they leave you with sparse documentation, opaque names, no presets, no way to save user presets.... There are so many things about CueMix that are inspired in concept, and like 90% there, but then they drop the ball on the last 10%.

Couldn't they have at least given us something like "Big Room/Small Room", "Warm Room/Dark Room", instead of just "A, B, C..."? I just picked one, spent some time adjusting the 7-8 different controls, and now look at it like I've got a basic reverb I can throw in the cans in a pinch. But had they just gone that extra 10%, it could have been so much more. <sigh>

Babz

+ 1.

Absolutely !

[Shooshie]

Since the very beginning, CueMix has always felt like it was programmed by the lowest bidder, and it would seem that every feature must cost a lot more for MOTU, so they have none of the amenities of DP or Mac software in general. Unisyn was a lot worse! Nevertheless, once you accept the bare-bones programming style, the features that are available are very nice to have.

I agree, totally, that it would have been a home-run out of the park if MOTU had gone all the way in the design and programming of these things, but I still think the functionality keeps it well out of total-joke status. I do know your frustrations, though.

Shooshie

[Gone To Lunch]

Since the very beginning, CueMix has always felt like it was programmed by the lowest bidder, and it would seem that every feature must cost a lot more for MOTU, so they have none of the amenities of DP or Mac software in general. Unisyn was a lot worse! Nevertheless, once you accept the bare-bones programming style, the features that are available are very nice to have.

I agree, totally, that it would have been a home-run out of the park if MOTU had gone all the way in the design and programming of these things, but I still think the functionality keeps it well out of total-joke status. I do know your frustrations, though.

Shooshie

Yes....

However, it would not have cost very much to change A, B, C, D, E to a simple descriptive like hall, room, plate etc, would it ?

[bayswater]

?? or you could just listen to them.

As for saving presets, don't these get saved with configurations. Not as flexible as patches for specific effects, but usable.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I've never really thought of cue mix as anything more than a router with very basic mix and processing features which are really just an added convenience to the routing for your MOTU device. Nothing more. Nothing less. Just a way to route signals, not a mixing or processing environment. The excellent analysis tools notwithstanding.

As a result, I don't share any of the crits or disappointments expressed above and continue to use it as the tool it was designed to be. I think some people are trying to drive a nail with a screwdriver here, and then complaining that the nail didn't go in and the screwdriver is defective.

[James Steele]

?? or you could just listen to them.

Yeah... I'd just use my ears. I wouldn't be using anything in CueMix for a project itself but just for a monitoring mix I guess. That is IF I were not using MOTU PCI interfaces, because AFAIK the DSP capabilities of CueMix only work on Firewire interfaces, yes?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Even then, certain devices (such as Track 16) have the DSP built in as well, making for faster and better implementation and stand-alone use (i.e.: not with a computer attached to get DSP).

[Babz]

I've never really thought of cue mix as anything more than a router with very basic mix and processing features which are really just an added convenience to the routing for your MOTU device. Nothing more. Nothing less. Just a way to route signals, not a mixing or processing environment. The excellent analysis tools notwithstanding.

As a result, I don't share any of the crits or disappointments expressed above and continue to use it as the tool it was designed to be. I think some people are trying to drive a nail with a screwdriver here, and then complaining that the nail didn't go in and the screwdriver is defective.

Well, I've been with this a long time. First I had a 2408, which was just plain old CueMix, the basic "way to route signals", that you mention. Then I bought a 2408mkII, and then came CueMix DSP. And then recently, I just got an 828mk3 that came with the mighty "CueMix FX" -- and I was curious to see what that offered.

I can be as stoic as anyone -- and I did say that I now think of it as just a basic reverb you can throw in the cans in a pinch. But, I'm just saying, after finally eschewing mixers, and rack gear, and PCI cards and all that, and placing a lot of stock in the promise of 828mk3 and CueMix FX, some things are a little less full featured than I would have hoped. Like I said, 90% there, but that extra 10% could make all the difference.

One thing I really miss about a good Lexicon hardware unit is it came with dozens of presets that you could just throw on a bus and maybe tweak a bit and you're good to go. Now, I'm trying to be an engineer and a musician and a thousand other things and trying to focus on getting a good take, it would be great if I could just pull up a preset "Rich Vocal Hall" or some such, and get on with my take, instead of scratching my head pondering "Room A" and fiddling with 10 different parameter knobs.

But, stoic, screwdriver user than I am, I just have one basic Reverb that I set up in advance and throw in on there when I need it and humbling don't expect more. "Inspired," "disappointing," "90% there," ... all depends on where in the food chain you come into it.

Babz

[Babz]

That is IF I were not using MOTU PCI interfaces, because AFAIK the DSP capabilities of CueMix only work on Firewire interfaces, yes?

There have been 3 CueMixes over the years. The early CueMix was very basic and worked with the PCI-324 card. Then came the PCI-424 card and "CueMix DSP", which added the expanded software mixer and multiple mixes to separate outs (the "DSP" for this was part of the 424 card) -- zero latency monitoring, but no on-board effects.

The latest version is Cuemix "FX", which adds compression, EQ, and Reverb, but it is only available on the new FW/USB-based interfaces, because the effects are built into the hardware unit itself. This allows zero latency monitor, WITH effects.

On any of these units, you can always wire in a hardware reverb using availble i/o, and I still have an old Lexicon rack unit around, so I may try that, just to see. But, of course, that's extra wiring, power, etc. and I'm trying to stay as virtual as possible.

Again, CueMix FX *is* pretty awesome, and very powerful and flexible, and generally a well implemented GUI, but the Reverb "Room A, B, C" thing is kind of an achilles heel -- and a bit of a puzzler. I understand the need to be generic because of copyright concerns, but this is almost like they got to a certain point and they themselves didn't remember which was which! What the heck, we'll just call them A, B, C, D and E... LOL!

Best,
Babz

Links:

On CueMix DSP:

http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/2408/cuemix.html
http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/2408/faq.html

About CueMix FX:

http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ ... rview.html

[bayswater]

That is IF I were not using MOTU PCI interfaces, because AFAIK the DSP capabilities of CueMix only work on Firewire interfaces, yes?

That appears to be so. Too bad, because the actual DSP is in hardware, so it's not apparent why it would not have been included in the PCI interfaces.

[James Steele]

That is IF I were not using MOTU PCI interfaces, because AFAIK the DSP capabilities of CueMix only work on Firewire interfaces, yes?

That appears to be so. Too bad, because the actual DSP is in hardware, so it's not apparent why it would not have been included in the PCI interfaces.

As Babz alluded to, it's probably because the card was designed with the intention that the DSP was to be used for routing audio... not effects. It likely wasn't possible.

[Shooshie]

That is IF I were not using MOTU PCI interfaces, because AFAIK the DSP capabilities of CueMix only work on Firewire interfaces, yes?

That appears to be so. Too bad, because the actual DSP is in hardware, so it's not apparent why it would not have been included in the PCI interfaces.

Whatever replaces PCI and Firewire interfaces in the near future with the coming of the new Mac Pros and Thunderbolt will probably bring hardware DSP to all their boxes, since that's probably going to be the only line they make going forward. Just guesses on my part, but it seems reasonable. Why would they continue to make Firewire boxes? Well… USB 3.0 maybe. For PCs. I dunno…

I hope they rewrite the code and make it at least seem a little more 21st century in terms of amenities, ease of use, flexibility, and so forth.

It would be cool if we could actually MIX in DP on the CueMix mixing board. That's pie-in-the-sky, and probably will never happen. (what would we do with VIs which really never need an external mixer?) Oh well… let me put it this way: I hope that MOTU will become very innovative in their future hardware and software products.

Shooshie