DP8 for a former Logic Pro User: impressions and problems.

[andrewbighouse]

Hi everybody,

I composed Film Music using Logic Pro 9 for 3 years in waiting for DP8 which I purchased before Christmas. I was in need of a no-limit sequencer where I could compose using a lot of tracks and I would a software more specific for Film Music as well.

I started to use it immediately on Mac with some problem so I carried on to compose the works using Logic in order to complete them and take the right time in order to study DP8 and reach the same knowledge I achieved in Logic.

In this period I am using DP8 on Win7 and today, while I was trying to compose a test track in order to understand whether I might switch to DP8, I wrote down a short list of problems I got using it.

1- I hear a different sound when I play the virtual instrument and when I listen what I have recorded. It seems a kind of "drain" effect, the sound is not the same when I listen the MIDI track. I do not understand why and how to fix it. I got the same problem on Mac and that's one reason why I preferred to use Logic again for scheduled works I had to complete. Now I would love to understand the reason and fix this problem because I want use DP8. I tried different sequencers on the same DAW (Sequoia and Live for the moment) and I have not the same problem so I think it concerns some setting I have to check in DP8.

2- In Logic sometimes I used to drag a MIDI track from an instrument to another but also copying and pasting the same track in order to play the same melody just one time. On DP8 I tried but I am unable to drag the tracks or copy and paste it, nothing happens when I try.

3- In Logic I can record for instance 4/8 130bpm and when I need, I can change to 4/16 from the time bar directly and slow down the bpm of the whole project in order to be able to play and then return to the original bpm. When I change from 4/8 to 4/16, the tracks I have recorded previously change velocity according as the meter but I want keep the original time.

4- The MOD Wheel expression editing in Logic is different you can drag the pitch points, increase the number of them or clean them in order to manage the expression (when a virtual instrument provides this feature obviously). I tried in DP8 and I do not understand how to shape a curve.

5- When in Logic I play in Overdub the same instrument (when I have to play again a part of the melody because I got a mistake previously) I can drag the new take over the old track and delete it. In DP8 I tried and if I delete the new take because I do not like it I delete part of the old track as well but I want just delete the new track and try to play again. In Logic when I do the same thing I delete just the last track unless I select both obviously.

DP8 may be the alternative but I must fix the problems above reported before and learn it well also because DP8 should be great for my work (Film Music composition) and I have to be able to work both on Mac and Windows.

[FMiguelez]

It seems you keep expecting DP to be like Logic. IT IS NOT (fortunately).

DP has its own techniques and workflow. Don't expect to be able to use it fluidly in a couple of days because DP is DEEP.
You need to read the manual as well.

About the sound difference you mention in point 1, check your system... I had never heard anyone complaining abot that. It must sound EXACTLY the same.

[bralston]

Hi everybody,

I composed Film Music using Logic Pro 9 for 3 years in waiting for DP8 which I purchased before Christmas. I was in need of a no-limit sequencer where I could compose using a lot of tracks and I would a software more specific for Film Music as well.

I started to use it immediately on Mac with some problem so I carried on to compose the works using Logic in order to complete them and take the right time in order to study DP8 and reach the same knowledge I achieved in Logic.

In this period I am using DP8 on Win7 and today, while I was trying to compose a test track in order to understand whether I might switch to DP8, I wrote down a short list of problems I got using it.

I can try to point you in the right directions where to learn more about these...but you do need to come to the conclusion that DP is not Logic...and Logic is not DP. They do things differently and in many cases for good reason.

1- I hear a different sound when I play the virtual instrument and when I listen what I have recorded. It seems a kind of "drain" effect, the sound is not the same when I listen the MIDI track. I do not understand why and how to fix it. I got the same problem on Mac and that's one reason why I preferred to use Logic again for scheduled works I had to complete. Now I would love to understand the reason and fix this problem because I want use DP8. I tried different sequencers on the same DAW (Sequoia and Live for the moment) and I have not the same problem so I think it concerns some setting I have to check in DP8.

This should not be happening but I also am not entirely understanding what you mean by different or a "drain effect." Have never had any problem and all I can think of it that your system audio card or something has gone wonky. This is not normal.

2- In Logic sometimes I used to drag a MIDI track from an instrument to another but also copying and pasting the same track in order to play the same melody just one time. On DP8 I tried but I am unable to drag the tracks or copy and paste it, nothing happens when I try.

You can do this to. Just as easy. Use the track window...or for a bigger MIDI view, use the sequence window to highlight what you want then drag from tracks window to any other MIDI track. Or...copy highlighted notes....paste into new track...or copy notes to a clipping and create many clippings of things you want to use and paste in later. Clippings windows will float on top and let you use those clippings anywhere. Clippng can be ANYTHING. MIDI notes...multiple MIDI tracks...audio plugin settings...audio tracks, etc....

3- In Logic I can record for instance 4/8 130bpm and when I need, I can change to 4/16 from the time bar directly and slow down the bpm of the whole project in order to be able to play and then return to the original bpm. When I change from 4/8 to 4/16, the tracks I have recorded previously change velocity according as the meter but I want keep the original time.

You want to be changing the metronome...not the meter to accomplish what you want. Adjust the click settings. Click on the beat...or click on on the eighth...and adjust the tempo slider to be slower. Or insert a slow tempo change in conductor track for inputting those notes and then remove it when you are done.

4- The MOD Wheel expression editing in Logic is different you can drag the pitch points, increase the number of them or clean them in order to manage the expression (when a virtual instrument provides this feature obviously). I tried in DP8 and I do not understand how to shape a curve.

Below any MIDI track in the sequence window/view, there is an area to adjust or draw in any and all cc data. Make sure you have selected "modulation (cc1)" in that cc area...and draw away with the pencil tool. In addition to freehand drawing, there are curves and parabolic shapes in the tools to draw prettier curves in cc data. Again, just make sure you are drawing those when modulation is selected...otherwise it usually defaults to go into volume cc7.

5- When in Logic I play in Overdub the same instrument (when I have to play again a part of the melody because I got a mistake previously) I can drag the new take over the old track and delete it. In DP8 I tried and if I delete the new take because I do not like it I delete part of the old track as well but I want just delete the new track and try to play again. In Logic when I do the same thing I delete just the last track unless I select both obviously.

You need to enable the overdub mode for DP to not be destructively recording audio. It is one of the many buttons right there under the transport controls. This will enable layering the audio you record to keep recording on top of itself. Or..you can simply select a new take on the audio track to record this new audio in...and then expand the takes and edit together a new comp take from the different takes. Also...if you are just punching in audio...you can set automatic punch-in and punch-out points so when you record the new measures, it will auto record that section as you come to it. These are things you need to look up in the manual.

DP8 may be the alternative but I must fix the problems above reported before and learn it well also because DP8 should be great for my work (Film Music composition) and I have to be able to work both on Mac and Windows.

Like what has been said...DP is very deep and takes a long time to learn when coming to it new...and from another DAW that does things differently. If you can not do something you need to, just honestly assume that it is because you don't know how in DP yet...and don't assume DP can't do it. Because almost always it can. You just have to learn how. Which is why you have come here. I get it. But the above answers should help you at least look up the areas I was talking about in the manual. With the exception of #1...which is just weird and I do not know why that would be happening. My only suggestion is to also make sure all drivers (audio card, etc...) are up to date.

[nk_e]

If I may suggest: Purchase the Groove3 DP8 course(s) from Eli Krantzberg. He does a great job introducing you to the DP8 workflow. His advanced course has a section or two specifically on using DP for film scoring.

Links are at the bottom of the sig below. No affiliation by the way.

Good luck.

[Shooshie]

Kudos to Brian for patience and going out of his way to answer questions that should be found in manual as a new user learns DP. And I second the motion to check out the Groove3 DP8 vids.

And to add a little of my own, here are some things that might shed a little light:

DP Tips Sheet Thread A lot of this won't be applicable until you know more of the basics, but I find that when I read tips like this (in products to which I'm new) it opens my eyes to things and helps me learn faster when I'm back to reading the manual. Sorry they're not well-organized. But I've tried to make it possible to search for keywords and find things quickly.

Here is a little tutorial on using continuous data in DP. Really, this should help you a lot, right now.

You might scan the topics in the rest of that thread. There are dozens of great posts in there from forum members as well as MOTU employees.

Seriously, spend some time in that continuous data post. I promise you'll find a number of things that will help you immediately.

And finally, remember that DP is probably the oldest commercial DAW available for Mac or PC. Much of the innovation in DAWs has come from the very application we're discussing, which was always at the forefront of MIDI and audio-in-the-box technology. When Logic came along, it was the oddball app that did everything differently. In some cases, that "reinventing the wheel" attitude made Logic very powerful. In other cases, it just made it hard to use and weirdly illogical for something whose name promises so much. When I use Logic, I sooner or later find myself thinking "oh man, I feel sorry for people who learn on Logic and then try to use something else." It makes your perspective so different that the obvious (in other DAWs) is hidden from you because of the workflow you're expecting to find.

You've gotten some good advice already in this thread. I hope heed some of my recommendations, too; especially the post on working with continuous data.

Shooshie

[Todzilla]

And finally, remember that DP is probably the oldest commercial DAW available for Mac or PC.

..and yet its code is probably the newest, given the total code overhaul to create a cross-platform product. I expect, once the initial kinks are worked out (and frankly the very first release of 8 had very few bugs) I expect DP to be among, if not the, most stable DAW out there.

[Todzilla]

1- I hear a different sound when I play the virtual instrument and when I listen what I have recorded. It seems a kind of "drain" effect, the sound is not the same when I listen the MIDI track. I do not understand why and how to fix it. I got the same problem on Mac and that's one reason why I preferred to use Logic again for scheduled works I had to complete. Now I would love to understand the reason and fix this problem because I want use DP8. I tried different sequencers on the same DAW (Sequoia and Live for the moment) and I have not the same problem so I think it concerns some setting I have to check in DP8.

Sounds like comb filtering. Are you sure you're not listening to recorded audio + MIDI triggering VI? If it's the same VI and MIDI file, then you may be hearing bad phase problems due to slight latency effect between recorded and played MIDI tracks.