Expanding inputs on a 828mkIII FW (no hybrid)

[miket]

My MIDI setup is quite complex, made up of several synthesizers, expanders and built on a three MIDI Express 128 MIDI interfaces.
At present, almost all synthesizers stereo outputs are routed to a Yamaha 01v + MY8/AD24 Expansion Card and a Yamaha ProMix01 digital mixer.
My main synthesizers (S90ES, Motif XF7 and Juno G) and ProMix01 are hooked to the 828mkIII analog inputs, while 01v is hooked to the SPDIF one.

I'd like to get rid off those old Yamaha digital mixers (CueMix is way better) but I'm wondering if an input "line-type" only expansion can be achieved just with a couple of 8pre or do I need to buy 828mkIII again?
What about word clock synchronization? How many units can be cascaded without problems?

Thanks
mike

[miket]

Did I post a too difficult question?

[HCMarkus]

You can hang one 8-input analog to ADAT converter off each Litepipe input on your mkIII for up to 16 additional analog ins, assuming you run at 44.1 or 48k. Each of the analog ins will show up in the 828's CueMix.

There are a few options, including MOTU's 8Pre (which does not offer Wordclock i/o), and units from Focusrite, Mackie Presonus, etc. I have a Presonus Digimax FS working nicely with my 828mkII. It provides 8 additional ins and outs via the mkII's single ADAT port.

IMO, word clock (BNC) is the best way to sync the devices.

[miket]

HCMarkus

Thanks for your much appreciated reply

Thus, if I'm not wrong, I might buy a couple of MotU 8pre, connect them via ADAT cable to the 828mkIII FW, to add another 16 mono inputs.
But I'm still unsure about synchronization of these devices. Is this necessary, if wordclock is lacking on 8pre??

What if needed at least 40 mono analog audio channels to handle with MotU gear?

[HCMarkus]

8pres can be synced via Litepipe.

You will need another interface if you need 40 inputs, as the 828mkIII has 28 inputs max, including the Analog Line and Mic, SPDIF, and ADAT ins. If you use a second interface, you will have to work with two CueMix consoles.

I'd submix some synths in the analog domain.

[miket]

8pres can be synced via Litepipe.

You will need another interface if you need 40 inputs, as the 828mkIII has 28 inputs max, including the Analog Line and Mic, SPDIF, and ADAT ins. If you use a second interface, you will have to work with two CueMix consoles.

I'd submix some synths in the analog domain.

Yes, theoretically 828mkIII has max 28 inputs, but in my reality it has just 8 analog inputs and a SPDIF where is hooked a Yamaha 01v (16+MY8AD analog ins).
Thus adding 2 8pre I'd have "just" another 16 mono inputs... not a great deal for the price payed
Actually a Yamaha ProMix is hooked to the 828mkIII as a synthesizeers submixer. This creates some difficulties because two submixers routed just to SPDIF and 2 analog 828mkIII inputs are hard to manage.
What I need is a smarter and faster system to manage synth volumes and eq.
Any clues?
Am I using my 828mkIII in the wrong way?

[HCMarkus]

I used to run two 01vs via ADAT into a MOTU 2408 mkIII.

There are so many variables and solutions; creative thinking and continuing research should get you to your best answer. Good luck!

[miket]

What do you think about a couple of Focusrite OctoPre MkII Dynamic synced via wordclock and ADAT to a 828mkIII?

[HCMarkus]

I think that is an excellent choice Miket! You might be able to get by with the non-dynamic version if money is an issue.

I wish wither MOTU or Focusrite would include expander/gates among their dynamic processing options... noise gates would allow users to keep ancient (and sometimes not-so-ancient) synth output noise at bay when the synths are not being called upon in a composition. That is one advantage of the 01v; full dynamics on each channel, if I recall correctly.

[miket]

thanks again for your comments, HCMarkus.

Now there's another issue to face: synchronizing 2 OctoPre MkII to the 828mkIII.
I'm not completely sure if they can be put into cascade mode

i.e. 828mkIII--> OctoPre MkII 1 --> OctoPre MkII 2

[HCMarkus]

A pleasure to assist Miket.

I suggest you explore word clock connection protocols with a Google search.

Using a word clock "T" connector on the unit in the middle is what I understand to generally be the prescribed approach. The Focusrite units may or may not need WC termination. I'd check the manual or contact Focusrite directly. Or perhaps others will weigh in here...

[DavidAtFocusrite]

Hi all,

The cleanest way to sync between two OctoPre MkII Dynamics and your 828MkIII would be to sync off of one of the OctoPres. Here's how to do that:

OctoPre #1 (Master) --ADAT--> 828
OctoPre #2 --ADAT--> 828
Octopre #1 --ADAT or BNC--> Octopre #2

Now that OctoPre #1 is word clock master, you can have your 828 clock off of ADAT, and OctoPre #2 clock off ADAT or Wordclock (BNC).

It's generally not advisable to cascade word clock because of the delay caused by each circuit it passes through. You could theoretically use the "T" connector method as well, but you'd really just be buying more cables to achieve the same thing as syncing over ADAT.

Please let me know if anybody has any questions, I'll be glad to help.

Best regards,

David Tichauer // Focusrite Technical Support

[HCMarkus]

Thank you for weighing in David. I've gotta' say that I've had better luck with WC than ADAT sync over the years. WC has been consistently rock solid for me. With ADAT sync (admittedly last used a number of years ago) I encountered the occasional, always traumatic "click" from time to time. So I stick with WC now.

[miket]

Hi all,

snip---

Please let me know if anybody has any questions, I'll be glad to help.

Best regards,

David Tichauer // Focusrite Technical Support

hi David

thanks for your precious reply...
provided that I've already hooked a Yamaha 01v to the 828mkIII via SPDIF, my goal is simple: adding 16 analog inputs to the 828mkIII and - possibily, being able to control everything through CueMix.

Is this possible, keeping 828mkIII as master of the entire system???

Thanks in advance.
miket

[thenickstarr]

I hope this thread is still live...

I'm actually attempting to setup an 828 mkIII hybrid (via firewire) to two Focusrite Octopre Dynamics. I have setup multiple systems in the past with 8pre's, 828 mkII's, other 828 mkIII's etc, so I'm no stranger to ADAT and digital sync as well as the problems it can present...

I can't even get one of the octopre's to sync via ADAT. I am using optical ADAT for sync. I've tried multiple optical cables, different ports, optical bank A vs B, different order of turning on, restarting, resetting, changing sample rates... I can't think of what might be going on. I've never gotten the 828 to show lock. The octopre will sometimes give me lock, sometimes not, but it never translates to the 828. Other times, I'll have the 828 show that bank A (or B) is present but I never get more than that digital static through cuemix. I've been at it for a few hours now.

I even tried getting both octopre's to go at the same time (wishful thinking) and of course, no luck. Am I wrong in thinking that I could use both banks on the mkIII for ADAT in and ADAT clock out at the same time?

This is a different setup than what would be in my signature as it's a session for my work. The computer is an iMac circa 2009, snow leopard, 4 gigs ram and I'm running Logic Pro 8.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks everyone!

Nick