MOTU 828mk3 or 8Pre for additional 8 Channels?

[frankyl]

Hello,
already use a MOTU 828mk3 but need 8 more channels for my hardware synths i'm going to connect via ADAT lightpipe to my 828mk3.

i got the chance to either buy a MOTU 8Pre or 828mk3 hybrid 2nd hand from someone.

can someone help me which one would be best?

MOTU828mk3 + 8Pre or MOTU828mk3 Firewire + 828mk3 hybrid

many thanks for any help and answer in advance.
cheers
frank

[HCMarkus]

IMO, better to use a single MkIII and leverage the ADAT with the 8pre so everything combines into one Cue Mix console. Lowest latency this way, too (no multiplier).

[wylie1]

I use an 8pre with a 838mk3 never had an issue with the combo although I think the display is shot on my 828.

[nk_e]

FWIW

I bought a 2nd hand 8pre and used it the way you describe and it was a bit of a PIA. (Search on the web or this forum for 8pre + christmas tree lights. seriously.) Eventually bought a 828mk3.

I have three 828mk2s and a mk3. I run them in individually to the MacPro via FireWire. I also have an old maudio fw410 running into the hybrid via adat.

In DP I use them with a multiplier of 2 and I don't notice latency. In all other DAWs I use them as an aggregate device with the hybrid as the master clock with no problems*.

I say get the mk3. More versatility for the future too.

Hope that helps.

G

*- occasionally I get a weird MAS issue wherein the order of the devices don't show up as expected.

[Prime Mover]

I'm not sure you need either, really. The Mk3 is a powerful machine and can be expanded to up to 16 more channels via ADAT. There's no question that the simplest and most efficient way of adding additional converters is to use one device as the master and expand it by ADAT. I strongly suggest against running them separately with firewire, there's ABSOLUTELY no reason to do that unless you completely run out of ADAT channels.

To summarize: get a used 828mkII if you plan on doing exactly what you say and nothing else.

Preamps are the biggest cost, and the most susceptible to age and use, computer interfaces are another big cost. Your ideal device is going to be one with nothing but line-level inputs, converters, and ADAT out, without the interface... but I don't think anyone makes a device that stripped down.

So your second-best option is something like a used 828mkII. To my knowledge, within reason, converters don't break or age, and you don't have to worry bout the interface either. Just ADAT it into the mk3, and you've got 8 more line-level ins. There's absolutely no reason to have more than one mk3 that I can see, unless you're planning on tracking massive amounts of inputs, and need 48+ line-level channels. Since the Mk3 has two sets of ADAT lines, each unit can take an additional 16 channels, on top of the 8(+2) it already has. It would be a waste of money, IMO, just get a Mk2 off ebay.

Don't bother with the 8pre unless you're planning on doing lots of mic tracking too, you're paying for something you don't need: pre-amps, and if you're planning on the signal being line-level full time, you'll want to keep it as clean as possible, bypassing any pre's. If I remember RadioGal's converter test, the mkIIs have just as good of converters as the Mk3s. The only benefits to the Mk3 are:

A) 8 more ADAT ins
B) USB
C) built-in monitoring effects
D) you can buy them new

A-C don't matter at all to you because whatever you get, you'll be wanting to run it as a slave off your existing one, so those features are useless. D I don't think matters, because I really haven't heard of converters breaking down with age, as long as you get one that's not been beaten to death, you should be fine.

[nk_e]

I'm not sure you need either, really. The Mk3 is a powerful machine and can be expanded to up to 16 more channels via ADAT. There's no question that the simplest and most efficient way of adding additional converters is to use one device as the master and expand it by ADAT. I strongly suggest against running them separately with firewire, there's ABSOLUTELY no reason to do that unless you completely run out of ADAT channels...

Does it introduce bad issues to run them in on FW separately? (Besides chewing up FW ports. i don't run them into a pci card; i run them into the FW ports on the macpro.) I originally had two 828s running in via FireWire each expanded by 8 channels of ADAT from the other 828 and the 8 pre. But I kept having weird issues with the CueMix software. Eventually I ended up with the "FW each" solution.

I ask because if I'm doing something that will lead to problems, I'd like to know.

Thanks.

[Prime Mover]

It can. It's just generally a more complex system, especially with the clock sync. I mean, it is meant to be used that way too, but you're having to coordinate two different "brains" which always introduces complexity and potential issues. I've never done it that way because I had been advised not to and order ADAT cables at the same time. You have to use FireWire to setup the slave unit initially, but then you cut it loose and it's just running in/out ADAT lines. Never had a problem.

There are a few minor downsides and loss of function. I don't believe ADAT carries the two preamp channels, just specifically the 8/8 line ins and outs, also, you can't piggy-back send additional ADAT channels if you have two sets like on a mkIII, but that would be rediculous anyway. Finally,if you're running 88.2/96, each channel is takes up 2 streams so you can only run 4 on each line. But if any of these things is no use to use (as they aren't for me), its just a lot simpler to run ADAT.

[nk_e]

Hmm. Good stuff to know.

FWIW: As far as sync goes, I haven't had too much of an issue (luckily) as I set the sync option in audio MIDI setup designating one to 'internal sync' and setting the rest to use that one. No issues and It's been pretty solid for my purposes.

Next time I rewire my studio I may explore this again. There was a time when this whole thing was not stable and changed a few times in the span of 6 weeks. The most painful part was updating the templates in various DAWS. Painful.

Thanks for the info.

[NazRat]

I don't believe ADAT carries the two preamp channels, just specifically the 8/8 line ins and outs,

The ADAT outputs carry whatever the mix setup is in CueMix. When I used two 828mkIIs, I setup the mix bus in the slave 828 to output both analog 1-2 and Mic 1-2 to ADAT 1-2 (also S/PDIF L-R and analog 3-4 to ADAT 3-4). That way you can use one or the other without having to attach and reconfigure the slave unit. The biggest problem with using two firewire connections is monitoring. The drivers don't route over firewire between the units, so you have to physically connect one unit to the other for 'through hardware' no latency monitoring.

[frankyl]

thanks so much to everyone for the help.
haven't bought a 8pre yet, but will definitely buy one instead of a 2nd 828mk3.
well, meanwhile i got the chance to buy a 2nd hand 2408mk3 which is only 50 bucks more than the 8pre.

should i get the 2408mk3 instead of the 8pre? will definitely buy one of them.

would use the 2408mk3 as standalone (without firewire and pcie card) and connect everything (synths) the same way i would have done with the 8pre.

any suggestions? 8pre or 2408mk3?

many thanks again in advance

[Prime Mover]

Still don't understand why you're so dead set on buying an 8pre. To me, it strikes me as opposite of what you need. I'll be frank, the 8pre is not an item you're going to keep around for ever, it's a mid-range preamp bank... that in of itself makes it troublesome. Eventually, you'll probably want to get individual channel strips, and where are they going to go to? An 828, of course.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 8pre and it's served me well, recorded many a drum track on it. But really, that's all it's good for these days, drum tracking. Otherwise, even my cheapo presonus BlueTube pre ($200 for a pair of pre's) is higher quality than the in-the-box pres that the 8pre or 828 offer.

[wylie1]

Don't get me wrong, I love my 8pre and it's served me well, recorded many a drum track on it. But really, that's all it's good for these days, drum tracking.

That's all I use mine for its dedicated to a drum kit and for that's its great.