Opening old project - missing audio files

[rootstudio]

Hi all,

I need to open a project that was recorded with DP 2.7. All files are in my backup drive and I copied them to my production drive. The structure is nothing unusual (for a 2.7 session anyway):

The project file
An Audio Files folder (contains a bunch of audio files)

The audio files were recorded with Digidesign hardware (Session 8) and are in sd2 format. When I try to open the project, DP puts up a dialog, asking me to locate the missing audio files. The strange thing is that the list is empty except for one line with a blank file name and the name of the previously used disk. I can click the blank name space which activates the locate button, but since I don't know which file it is looking for, I cannot locate it.

I have added file name axtensions (.sd2) to the audio files as they were never added on the old system. That didn't make a difference.

When the project is open, I can see the soundbites in their tracks ok, but I can't find a function anywhere to locate the audio files once the project is loaded. Is this not possible? Any ideas?

Thanks,
Stefan

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I'd convert the files from sd2 to .wav or aiff, save them and then use those files. It might be that DP no longer recognizes the old format.

[mikehalloran]

If that doesn't fix it for you, post again. There are other things it can be, especially permissions issues. If you copied these files from one computer to another, you will have some of these issues.

Your sig says DP 7. Which version of 7? It may be important. If 7.01, these permission issues will affect you differently than if 7.12 or 7.21.

There are a number of us, myself included, who have projects going back that far (2.4 in my case) who are able to open them up in DP 8.

Right-click on your project folder, do Get Info. Make sure that your admin account is one of the owners of the folder - if not, add it. Grant Read and Write privileges to all users. Check the box to Apply to enclosed files and folders. Yes, you are sure if a dialog box asks.

[rootstudio]

I'd convert the files from sd2 to .wav or aiff, save them and then use those files. It might be that DP no longer recognizes the old format.

I doubt that since sd2 is still available as the default audio format:

>Preferences>Audio Files>Default File Format

Not that I'd still want to use it, but it's definitely supported. My problem is not the ability to play these files, but what looks like an internal setting that tells DP where to look for the files and what it's called.

In Logic (if you're familiar with that) I can open a window similar to the soundbites window. If I were to double click a missing audio file. I get an option to locate it. Is such a function available in DP (locating a missing file in an already open project)?

Thanks,
Stefan

[rootstudio]

Your sig says DP 7. Which version of 7? It may be important. If 7.01, these permission issues will affect you differently than if 7.12 or 7.21. [...]

Right-click on your project folder, do Get Info. Make sure that your admin account is one of the owners of the folder - if not, add it. Grant Read and Write privileges to all users. Check the box to Apply to enclosed files and folders. Yes, you are sure if a dialog box asks.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm on DP 7.22. I set read/write permissions for everyone, but it didn't make a difference... too bad!

Stefan

[NazRat]

How was your backup drive formatted? If it's any kind of FAT (Windows) then you are having issues with lost resource forks. Do the files show up in the Finder on your production drive and if so do they have 'exec' icons? If so, that is your issue - search the board for 'resource forks'.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I'd convert the files from sd2 to .wav or aiff, save them and then use those files. It might be that DP no longer recognizes the old format.

I doubt that since sd2 is still available as the default audio format:

Well re-exporting the files can also fix problems in the headers, but you don't have to try that and can continue to search for the problem for the next few weeks. Your choice.

[rootstudio]

How was your backup drive formatted? If it's any kind of FAT (Windows) then you are having issues with lost resource forks. Do the files show up in the Finder on your production drive and if so do they have 'exec' icons? If so, that is your issue - search the board for 'resource forks'.

That's a good guess, but no, it's a Mac formatted drive and the icons are ok. I can double click and open them in QT or preview from Finder ok.

Stefan

[rootstudio]

I'd convert the files from sd2 to .wav or aiff, save them and then use those files. It might be that DP no longer recognizes the old format.

I doubt that since sd2 is still available as the default audio format:

Well re-exporting the files can also fix problems in the headers, but you don't have to try that and can continue to search for the problem for the next few weeks. Your choice.

Sorry, I didn't mean to discredit your first suggestion! I'm just saying that sd2 is still supported. Just to be sure though, I converted the files to wav and the results were the same. Had it worked, I would have probably lost all pointers to soundbites within Audio Files.

My (wild) guess is that it might have to do with the fact that in the Digidesign Session 8 days (when I recorded this project) all Audio had to be recorded to an external SCSI drive connected to the audio card. Perhaps there is some sort of a flag that makes it look for that drive. Sounds not very likely, but I don't know.

Next best thing would be to dust off that Mac IIci in the basement to see if it still boots, install drivers and... naw. I'd hate to do that!

Stefan

[rootstudio]

Just for the record, I just tried opening some other old projects that were recorded with DP 2.72 (I think, 2.x anyway).

All projects that were recorded with the Session 8 hardware behave like above, i.e. DP can't locate the audio files or knows what they're called.

Projects I recorded a bit later when I upgraded to TDM hardware open just fine. They're all from the same backup drive and from the Finder's perspective, they all look the same in every respect.

So it looks like there's some deeper problem with the way Session 8 audio files are stored that makes DP7 unable to properly identify and open them.

Stefan

[mikehalloran]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm on DP 7.22. I set read/write permissions for everyone, but it didn't make a difference... too bad!

That addresses only half of what I wrote.

Did you check to see that your user account was one of the owners? If it isn't there, you need to add it. When files are copied from one computer to another, the user admin account is often missing.

When you are done, run Repar Permissions from Disk Utility.

I can double click and open them in QT or preview from Finder ok.

Very good news. This does not mean that DP can find them nor does it mean that, if found, they will import. Still, it is good.

This means that you can use a number of programs including QT Pro to export these files to .wav or .aiff. Then you can convert back to sd2 or sdII. This strips and rebuilds the headers but leaves the audio intact. If your permissions issues are fixed, your files may now open correctly.

Make a copy of your original audio files first, of course, and put them in a cafe place before doing the above.

One of my clients often does his tracking in another studio. About 1/3 of the files he gives me need to go through this double-conversion to open up in DP (all post is done in my studio). Why do many of his files not open correctly - you'd think it would be all or nothing, right? I've no idea but it's been that way for years.

Worst case, after repairing the headers, you can drop them into a new project if you have to.

Another suggestion: Since you had 2.7, do you have DP 5? If so, install it, upgrade to 5.13 and see if you can open one of your projects. DP 5 can run fine if 7 is installed. If the project opens, that tells me one thing; if not, tells me another and if 5 won't run, it tells me of another set of problems that are easily fixed.

Using some combination of the above, I was able to restore all my old projects to open in 7.24 except for one. I had workarounds but it was galling me that this one important file wouldn't open properly except in 5.13 and 7.01. Being on OS 10.8... Anyway, I double-clicked on a copy of project instead of opening it within 7.24 to apply my workarounds. The copy opened up in 8 with all of my files intact. Whaaaa? Opening that copy in 7.24 gave me all of the same issues again.

[rootstudio]

Mike,

thank you for your detailed trouble shooting info. I'll give this a try and report laster this week.

One question though- by stripping the headers through double conversion, would I not loose all the pointers to soundbites within Audio Files? I always assumed that's where they are.

Stefan

[mikehalloran]

The headers are what make one file sd2, another .wav, a third .aif. The audio is unchanged.

[rootstudio]

The headers are what make one file sd2, another .wav, a third .aif. The audio is unchanged.

Yes, but that begs the question where the soundbites pointers are stored. As you know, you can cut an audio file into many little pieces and distribute them in your project, repeat little snips here and there etc. The information as to where these snips begin and end inside the audio file can be stored in the header (which I assumed is what DP is doing) or you can store them in the session/project file (like ProTools).

Anyway, I'll go with a copy of the files first to see what happens.

Thanks,
Stefan

[MIDI Life Crisis]

It's been 5 days since the initial post. Have you contacted MOTU?