what do we do with a culture that doesn't value recorded mus

[funkyfreddy]

A question for my colleagues in music production..... what do we do with a culture that doesn't value recorded music anymore?

Do we attempt to create a different, alternative culture that values the art of music and sound? If so, how do we go about creating an alternative culture?

I'm trying to brainstorm here, so all constructive suggestions are very appreciated

[FMiguelez]

Judging by the scary tendencies I see, and on how little value most people place on original art, this all will be a thing of the past soon.

How long before PROs disappear?

I give all this one or two generations of life left tops.

[Guitar Gaz]

With all the media to fill, content is always in demand. So art is never going to die - its just going to change. We always need good art - democritising art by availability of apps really only produces much more mediocre art. But the current model has changed and new ways of charging for content still need to be explored - but it doesn't mean that people will forever pay nothing for their art. But the current iTunes model has brought about this situation - too high a charge for a track you don't even own and doesn't have a physical entity. So music has to find a new way - it will. But we don't know what it is yet - possibly streaming a bit like Spotify but lots of people paying modest amounts can still generate a healthy income.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Actually, it depends on what you write for. The PROs are not going anywhere as long as writing for broadcast media by professionals exists, so you can forget about that going away anytime soon.

I have never thought of "selling" music, but always considered the use of my work a license. I don't write music for the masses to "buy" on iTunes or elsewhere. I score from commissions and then license the work for broadcast or performance. In fact, it is extremely rare for me to write anything unless I am being paid to do so. When people stop paying me, I'll stop writing, but this model has worked for me since 1976 (when I went into composing as a full-time gig) and there is no sign that an end is in sight in at least the next 5 to 10 years, and probably until I drop dead.

Lucky? For sure. I feel extremely lucky and privileged to be able to do what I love and get paid for it. But it is also my occupation. My job. Part of that job is to make sure I do get paid and not work for free, or for "backend" or credits or experience or connections.

What I think most of you guys are looking at is the ability to capitalize on "songs" and that is a different ball of wax. The genre has been abusing artists for as long as people have been writing songs. Sure, folks like the Beatles and others have made tons of money that way. Others, like Mary Wells, die pennyless. Then again, so did Mozart, but the difference is he squandered his money - but he was paid for his work. One of the first composers to say f-you to the aristocracy and work on commissions.

Other aspects of this are the availability of downloadable music, "sharable" files, and the abundance of people who can produce crap (and sometimes great stuff) yet give it away for free because they simply do not understand the business end of music and licensing.

This is very bad for those who don't know any other way, but it is very good for those who do understand the process of leasing music.

Case in point: A few months ago, a fellow "composer" wrote a score for a public domain silent film and sent the score to the people who could get his score attached to the piece. They were gracious and provided a link on their site to his site - for a while at any rate. But he wasn't paid by them to write a score and when the time came to set the work to music, they didn't go with the free music or the lowest bidder, they went with a composer who was paid very well for his work. There was value in the score. And that is not to say the other fellows score was necessarily bad, but it was "free" and as such had no intrinsic value to the producer, who preferred to commission a new work for a handsome sum. The score had value to the producer and to the composer.

So as long as you feel that you're defeated and you have no way to make money by selling your music, you will be defeated and will not be able to sell your stuff. Once you start to demand payment for your work, you might work less, but when you do work, you'll be making a living, making music.

It's all a matter of perspective: drive, talent, skill, business sense, self-worth, and getting to the right people who need what you have to offer. Yeah, that's a lot. No one ever said it was going to be easy (althoug many think it will be easy.

Writing is the easy part. Getting the gig, now there's the rub.

[HCMarkus]

For popular music, the licensing approach (i.e. Pandora) is likely to prevail in the long run. People will pay a nominal monthly fee for access to a large library of music from which they can create their own playlists or have playlists automatically produced by the provider based on the customer's preferences.

I'll second MLC's comment re: Value. If you don't charge for your time, it ain't worth much.

[daniel.sneed]

Playing live music is not a downloadable experience! Audience has to get a ticket, and to be at the right place at the right time.
Stop recording for internet hackers! Play music for real audiences!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

That too, but licensing is lucrative in the long term, especially for TV. Just sayin'

[Prime Mover]

No trend is permanent. Anyone who fears the eternal demise of anything is a bad student of history. Eras come and go, who knows how long before the next cultural renaissance. Art is a complete reflection of the current cultural ethos... how it is delivered is just as important as what it is. The model just has to change with the current customs. If it doesn't, then it's the artist and industries fault.

Piracy, contrary to popular belief, grew more out of convenience than greed. When an industry failed to recognize the conveniences that modern digital download provided, the people did it themselves. Now that the industry has come around and provided extremely convenient solutions, the problem is solving itself, it may just take time to sink in. I was on tour the other day, and a band mate told me about this metal band he thought I might like... while I was driving, my iPhone downloaded the album off iTMS and we were listening within a few minutes. For a mere $10, that's worth a lot more than searching around torrent sites for some non-transportable file... regardless of the ethical implications.

Organizations that charge money will always have the means to provide customers with better service, and find ways of making it more worthwhile than free-bees. If the pirates are winning, then the industry is doing something seriously wrong.

[BKK-OZ]

I offer this to the discussion.
A friend shared it with me recently.

Don't make people pay for music, says Amanda Palmer: Let them. In a passionate talk that begins in her days as a street performer (drop a dollar in the hat for the Eight-Foot Bride!), she examines the new relationship between artist and fan.

Alt-rock icon Amanda ••••ing Palmer believes we shouldn't fight the fact that digital content is freely shareable -- and suggests that artists can and should be directly supported by fans.

[nk_e]

Actually, it depends on what you write for. The PROs are not going anywhere as long as writing for broadcast media by professionals exists, so you can forget about that going away anytime soon.

I have never thought of "selling" music, but always considered the use of my work a license. I don't write music for the masses to "buy" on iTunes or elsewhere. I score from commissions and then license the work for broadcast or performance. In fact, it is extremely rare for me to write anything unless I am being paid to do so. When people stop paying me, I'll stop writing, but this model has worked for me since 1976 (when I went into composing as a full-time gig) and there is no sign that an end is in sight in at least the next 5 to 10 years, and probably until I drop dead.

Lucky? For sure. I feel extremely lucky and privileged to be able to do what I love and get paid for it. But it is also my occupation. My job. Part of that job is to make sure I do get paid and not work for free, or for "backend" or credits or experience or connections.

What I think most of you guys are looking at is the ability to capitalize on "songs" and that is a different ball of wax. The genre has been abusing artists for as long as people have been writing songs. Sure, folks like the Beatles and others have made tons of money that way. Others, like Mary Wells, die pennyless. Then again, so did Mozart, but the difference is he squandered his money - but he was paid for his work. One of the first composers to say f-you to the aristocracy and work on commissions.

Other aspects of this are the availability of downloadable music, "sharable" files, and the abundance of people who can produce crap (and sometimes great stuff) yet give it away for free because they simply do not understand the business end of music and licensing.

This is very bad for those who don't know any other way, but it is very good for those who do understand the process of leasing music.

Case in point: A few months ago, a fellow "composer" wrote a score for a public domain silent film and sent the score to the people who could get his score attached to the piece. They were gracious and provided a link on their site to his site - for a while at any rate. But he wasn't paid by them to write a score and when the time came to set the work to music, they didn't go with the free music or the lowest bidder, they went with a composer who was paid very well for his work. There was value in the score. And that is not to say the other fellows score was necessarily bad, but it was "free" and as such had no intrinsic value to the producer, who preferred to commission a new work for a handsome sum. The score had value to the producer and to the composer.

So as long as you feel that you're defeated and you have no way to make money by selling your music, you will be defeated and will not be able to sell your stuff. Once you start to demand payment for your work, you might work less, but when you do work, you'll be making a living, making music.

It's all a matter of perspective: drive, talent, skill, business sense, self-worth, and getting to the right people who need what you have to offer. Yeah, that's a lot. No one ever said it was going to be easy (althoug many think it will be easy.

Writing is the easy part. Getting the gig, now there's the rub.

That was a great post MLC.

[daniel.sneed]

[...]So as long as you feel that you're defeated and you have no way to make money by selling your music, you will be defeated and will not be able to sell your stuff. Once you start to demand payment for your work, you might work less, but when you do work, you'll be making a living, making music.

It's all a matter of perspective: drive, talent, skill, business sense, self-worth, and getting to the right people who need what you have to offer. Yeah, that's a lot. No one ever said it was going to be easy (althoug many think it will be easy.

Writing is the easy part. Getting the gig, now there's the rub.

So well said MLC!
I couldn't agree more!!!

[kgdrum]

I offer this to the discussion.
A friend shared it with me recently.

Don't make people pay for music, says Amanda Palmer: Let them. In a passionate talk that begins in her days as a street performer (drop a dollar in the hat for the Eight-Foot Bride!), she examines the new relationship between artist and fan.

Alt-rock icon Amanda ••••ing Palmer believes we shouldn't fight the fact that digital content is freely shareable -- and suggests that artists can and should be directly supported by fans.

I read a thread on GS about her,apparently she also doesn't feel she has to pay the musicians that play for her,feeling a beer and a hug is adequate renumeration for musicians that play in performances with her......
She's obviously charismatic,she's developed herself as a marketable anti-corporate product but in the long run is her model sustainable or morally correct if she doesn't compensate people that perform with her?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Well, FWIW, I'd rather make in a single performance enough to buy beer for the year - and then some.

I have a friend with an 18 piece jazz band. They play most of their gigs for drinks!

I call that desperation. If I was that desperate to perform, I'd be tuning pianos today.