Gone back to 7.24

[flashman]

So after several weeks on DP8 I'm back on 7.24. Main reasons were:

- the video and quicktime issues gobbling up CPU
- clicks and pops when recording multiple stems (possibly related to the video problem)
- Crashing when using "wait for MIDI"
- The mixer not following the tracks selected in the tracks window (track selector issue)
- Unable to access timestretch tab on side of soundbites when too many tracks are selected
( another track selector issue)

We run very big templates and ask a lot of DP but so far DP8 hasn't been delivering. I post this hoping MOTU read this forum! Quite disappointed and really hoping all this will be resolved in 8.1

10.8.2, Mac 12 core 2.93ghz, 12Gb ram + 4 x PC slaves running MIDI over lan, VSL ensemble Pro

[NazRat]

It's always rough sledding with version updates until we get to the .1 or .2 level. Fortunately my usage is not all that demanding, so DP8 has been working OK. Keep the faith - things will get better and maybe they'll give back the old style track selector as a preference or implement it in another way (i.e. right-click on selected tracks with option like 'open selected tracks in mixer'). I'm a fan of the new style.

[flashman]

Thanks Nazrat - it does require a bit of faith!

[Killahurts]

Flashman - were you running 64 bit or 32?

Just curious.. You and I have a similar setup, and DP8 in 64 bit is operating beautifully in my big templates. 32 bit OTOH, was not usable for me.

[flashman]

64 bit. It was OKish on smaller templates but the video thing is still a real pain even then. Trying to run DP8 + a movie on a quad core mac in our smaller studio was a complete non-starter. Went back to 7.24 and it ran as normal again. In a way I'm slightly more concerned about the workflow changes which don't work that well for people on bigger templates as that was a conscious decision. We'll see what's round the corner.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Yet another good post as to why economy of resources (in the form of fewer tracks) can be a benefit.

This may be a little o/t but from what I am seeing here and there, some of the folks who throw up their hands at DP8 are running hundreds of tracks in their templates. While I understand the rationale, my inner composer voice shrieks at the idea.

Anyone who has ever actually written and notated (not just sequenced) a work for a large ensemble knows full well that the staff paper represents upwards of 106 players at times - sometimes more. Just keeping track of that much requires much skill and patience. Thinking you can keep track of hundreds of tracks and, that having that many tracks is essential to your process, is quite alien to me. But of more importance in the current discussion, it does seem that the mega-traaaaack folks are the ones who not only have problems but who have to jump ship to escape them.

I just completed about a dozen short films in DP 8 as well as a doc and a concert dance piece. Aside from minor redraw issues, it has been fairly solid with an occasional crash here and there. This leaves me wondering:

Is there a recommended limit to the number of tracks in DP and other DAWs and what track counts are being used to test the app?

There is a tipping point in all things and for the moment at least, for some the tipping point in using or not using DP8 is dependent on very large templates. Is this a problem with DP8, or could it be a problem with the overall concept that you need hundreds of tracks to accomplish great art? Put another way, is your art now compromised by your process? It would certainly seem so.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. ~ Leonardo da Vinci

[Killahurts]

I haven't had to do any movie syncing projects in DP since 8 came out. Lucky me. I hope MOTU fixes that stuff and makes it solid before I have another video project. I have problems with some aspects of the new workflow as well. The mixer not following track selections is a big one.

And is it just me, or does the new plugin selection window, though better in theory, take longer than the old flip-downs? It's the extra mouse clicking I hate..

[NazRat]

And is it just me, or does the new plugin selection window, though better in theory, take longer than the old flip-downs? It's the extra mouse clicking I hate..

If you right-click the plug slot, you get the old style selection. (I think that's it, I'm not at the Mac right now.)

[Killahurts]

Yet another good post as to why economy of resources (in the form of fewer tracks) can be a benefit.

This may be a little o/t but from what I am seeing here and there, some of the folks who throw up their hands at DP8 are running hundreds of tracks in their templates. While I understand the rationale, my inner composer voice shrieks at the idea.

Anyone who has ever actually written and notated (not just sequenced) a work for a large ensemble knows full well that the staff paper represents upwards of 106 players at times - sometimes more. Just keeping track of that much requires much skill and patience. Thinking you can keep track of hundreds of tracks and, that having that many tracks is essential to your process, is quite alien to me. But of more importance in the current discussion, it does seem that the mega-traaaaack folks are the ones who not only have problems but who have to jump ship to escape them.

I just completed about a dozen short films in DP 8 as well as a doc and a concert dance piece. Aside from minor redraw issues, it has been fairly solid with an occasional crash here and there. This leaves me wondering:

Is there a recommended limit to the number of tracks in DP and other DAWs and what track counts are being used to test the app?

There is a tipping point in all things and for the moment at least, for some the tipping point in using or not using DP8 is dependent on very large templates. Is this a problem with DP8, or could it be a problem with the overall concept that you need hundreds of tracks to accomplish great art? Put another way, is your art now compromised by your process? It would certainly seem so.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. ~ Leonardo da Vinci

I hear you. We could debate the need for very high track counts all day.. But the fact remains that for some, DP 7.24 handled projects like that much better than DP8 (subject of the thread), and something doesn't seem right about that. I say for some, because once I went to 64 bit, I have had great performance with DP8, as good as 7.24, even with my largest templates.

On a personal note, I find a large template indispensable for some of my work. One big reason being that I work with more than one computer, and it takes longer to hunt down, say a certain string articulation and load it up in my system. I have proven to myself that the time between inspiration and realization is substantially shorter for me, working this way. My album making template is very different from, and 1/3 the size of, my production music template, so it's not just boasting about the track count.

[Killahurts]

And is it just me, or does the new plugin selection window, though better in theory, take longer than the old flip-downs? It's the extra mouse clicking I hate..

If you right-click the plug slot, you get the old style selection. (I think that's it, I'm not at the Mac right now.)

AWESOME! Thanks so much for that! Learn something new every day. Not only works the way it did before, but includes the new organization in the flip-down, so you can go to "recent" etc.

Nice.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

...I find a large template indispensable for some of my work...

Whatever floats your boat. Coming from a fairly traditional western classical and largely symphonic mindset, I organize my work much better if I think in terms of the total instrument and not so much the individual parts that make up the sound. In that sense, I also tend to visualize players actually playing the work and prefer a quick keyswitch to hunting down a pizz patch every time (and keeping the part on a single track whenever possible). Same thing for ornamentations. I'd rather execute them myself as that can sometimes lead to mistakes (heaven's forbid) and that can lead to experimentation, innovation and IMO more interesting scores.

To tell a family secret, I'm rather sick to death of perfect sounding cinematic scores. The "standard" is getting somewhat worn out to my ears and certainly to my esthetic. I am either fortunate (or unfortunate - depending on your perspective) in that the works I am hired to produce are largely free of commercial constraints. There are no advertisers, or host of producers and directors and agents and managers and where you have to be at noon - at least most of the time.

I love being independent of the commercial world. Not that I would turn down a feature for a major release, but if and when that ever happens it will be because what I offer is different and unique, and relies on my imagination as opposed to someone else's expectations.

On the flip side, that may also mean I never get to score a blockbuster, and frankly I'm really OK with that too. The work I am doing is meaningful and important to the intended audience and I'm making a decent living as a free lance journeyman composer. That's what I set out to do and that's what I'm doing via, either, several dozen tracks in DP (at most) or a master conductor's score and lots of parts in Finale.

Simple is good. In art. In life. In my opinion.

[Killahurts]

Coming from a fairly traditional western classical and largely symphonic mindset, I organize my work much better if I think in terms of the total instrument and not so much the individual parts that make up the sound.

Different strokes Mike. I do not have the luxury of having real orchestral ensembles perform and record my work. I have to do it, and it needs to sound somewhat legit in the end, because what the big film composers would consider an excellent mockup, is the finished product for me, and what I hopefully get paid for. I can go about it two different ways.. I can have lots of tracks setup and have most everything available instantly, or I can start smaller and add the tracks as I go, possibly interrupting the creative flow with more left-brain chores. To me, the former is less tedious than the latter. DP's folders and my console commands/controls make getting around lots of tracks and staying organized relatively painless.

Of course the third alternative is notation (which I'm not very fast or experienced with), but even then I would still have to fuss with it after the fact and spend a lot of time tweaking to get to the level of recording production I need. Like you mentioned, you do get a more holistic view of the piece when working with notation/scores.. but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's better or more efficient than any other approach I would take.