ANY DP users with Pro Tools experience, I have one question

hkc116 · Post by **hkc116** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:25 pm

First, I would like to say hello to everyone at UnicorNation.com
I have recently switched to Digital Performer from Pro Tools by purchasing the DP Competitive Upgrade from Sweetwater. I have spent considerable time with the DP manual for the past 2 & 1/2 weeks and I have a good understanding of the layout, functionality, and workflow of the program.

I just have one problem, however small, it is driving me crazy!
Even though my issue is so simple, I am going to be as detailed as possible because I really think there has to be a solution to this.

In the Pro Tools Preferences menu, under the Operations pane, there is an option "Timeline Insertion follows Playback"
What this tranlates to is, if I hit "play" on Pro Tools starting at bar 1, beat 1, and hit stop 2 bars later, if "Timeline Insertion follows Playback" is checked, then the Pro Tools transport will stop and the counter will read Bar 3 beat 1. If I press play from here, playback will resume from Bar 3 beat 1. This is how Digital Performer normally operates when Memory Play, Auto Stop, and Auto Rewind are all disengaged.
Now, if "Timeline Insertion follows Playback" was unchecked, if I hit stop at bar 3, the Pro Tools counter would auto rewind back to Bar 1 Beat 1 and resume playback from Bar 1 the next time I hit play. And if I then change the counter to Bar 20, press play for any amount of time, then stop, the Pro Tools transport would automatically auto rewind to resume playback from Bar 20 because that was the last counter position I entered.

Ok, so my problem is, I can find NO WAY to recreate this functionality (the latter example) in Digital Performer. I have tried so many work around configurations with the DP Control Panel but they all fall short. The closest method I have found is to use the command "Enter Counter In Memory Start" and enable Auto-Rewind. However, to keep this functionality working, I have to hit the command "Enter Counter In Memory Start" EVERY TIME that I change my playback location.
For example, I am playing a sequence from Bar 3, so my counter and auto-rewind is at Bar 3.. If I change the counter to Bar 5 to begin playback from here, I also need to change the memory start location so that it mirrors the playback start time. If you compare this to my example above, you will see the difference is, the DP transport does not update the auto-rewind to the last counter position that I enter. As a result, it is always a 2-step process to change my playback location to achieve proper functionality.

The other configuration I tried that was close but not right was to enable memory play and use the Memory Start and End times as Playback Start and End times (which is what it is configured to do). However, this renders the transport counter completely functionless as anything but a time display because playback is continuously controlled by the Memory Start time field and this proposes 2 problems. 1st, there is no shortcut to edit the Memory Start field (the shortcut to edit the transport counter is Apple+T) so everytime I need to adjust my playback location, I have to manually navigate my mouse to the tiny entry field on the control panel.
The second problem with this method is the "Bug" where the command "Play from selection start" does not properly work whenever "Memory Play" is engaged in the control panel. The "Play from selection start" command will only work when the transport is already running. Again, this "bug" only occurs when "Memory Play" is engaged. Upon initially entering the command, playback will begin from the regular Memory Start time and you have to hit the command a 2nd time in order for DP to properly execute the command.

I hope I have been very clear in describing the issue I am having with DP. Having comfortable control of the transport in a DAW is not something I want to think about when I would like to concentrate on recording, editing, or mixing. Does anyone know a way to have DP behave as Pro Tools' transport behaves when the preference "Timeline Insertion follows Playback" is unchecked?????

Thank you very much for your time and help.
- K.C. [/code]

merrek · Post by **merrek** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:42 pm

You're looking for the Selection Drawer's "Link Memory to Selection" and "Link Playback to Memory" options. Check out page 35-37 of the DP4.5 Users Manual.

hkc116 · Post by **hkc116** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:58 pm

Hello, thankyou for your reply but if you closely inspect the situation I was describing, you'll see that the proposed solution is not helpful at all.

Upon reading my post, you'll see I describe how "Link Playback to Memory" fails to reproduce the transport behavior that I am attempting to achieve. By selecting "Link Memory to Selection" and "Link Playback to Memory" together, the only difference is you now have the option to enter in playback start and end times into the selection start and end fields and the memory start and end fields instead of just the memory start and end fields since they are linked. This is no more helpful that having Link Playback to memory engaged by itself. You still are not able to initiate playback from the main counter or have auto-rewind update to the new playback location set by the main counter.

As I have obviously given this problem a lot of thought, I would appreciate not being blown off as as ignorant new-bee (not saying that this has happened). If anyone is willing to read through my entire post and give me a working solution, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again,
- K.C.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:12 pm

I feel your pain, but I don't think there is a way to do exactly what you're
asking in DP (I still run Protools at home as well)
I could be wrong about this, but I've tried a few variations on a theme
Including link to playback to try and achieve what you're asking
(and yes I did read your entire post) because I really wanted to reproduce
the same functionality in DP.
I've even written Motu to request this.
If someone else can show either of us otherwise, I certainly wouldn't
mind being wrong.
No ones trying to "blow you off" as you put it, so relax a bit.
A few people have jumped into this forum lately who very obviously
didn't buy there copy of DP and some of us (myself included) have
refered them to the manual to see if they actually had it (and thus owned the program) Many never responded again.
You very obviously do.
Not to speak for merrek, but I'm sure he meant no harm.

BobK · Post by **BobK** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:05 pm

KC - I'd love this feature too. If you haven't already done so, I suggest you write to the MOTU suggestion box: suggestions@MOTU.com - which is where they say to send feature requests. It may be idealistic, but if enough people ask for a feature, maybe they'll add it.

Schweats · Post by **Schweats** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:57 pm

I don't think , currently, you'll be able to replicate PT's behavior exactly,
however, this might help...

(the shortcut to edit the transport counter is Apple+T)
try 'dot' in the calculator grid ••¦ then type your location with the dot in between bar|beat|tick dot••¦ bar dot beat dot etc.

<there is no shortcut to edit the Memory Start field> ••¦yes there is
Now Try F1 for start ••¦ F2 for end for memory locations

(additionally ••¦Opt+3 to turn auto record on/off ••¦then F3 start, F4 end)

Also, on the calc grid ••¦
7 - memory on/off
8 - mem rewind on/off
9 - mem stop on/off
- (minus) Cycle on/off

Mouse-ing is always a pain for small box(s) that you have to point the cursor at, consequently, I highly recommend looking to see if there is
a key command (shift+L) already configured for your particular need.
If not, create one if possible. When trying to create a key command sometimes there is already one set (by default) for some action that you may hardly ever use. Turn it off and set that command for your specific action. HTH Schweats

hkc116 · Post by **hkc116** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:24 am

I don't think , currently, you'll be able to replicate PT's behavior exactly,

I am beginning to think this is not currently possible but it seems like it would be so simple to have this transport behavior as a preference option. This method of transport is quick and efficient, and it never occured to me that it wouldn't be avaliable in another program. Overall. it seems that Digital Performer has few operational preference options that allow modification of the actual operation of the program, as opposed to organizational configurations.

<there is no shortcut to edit the Memory Start field> ••¦yes there is
Now Try F1 for start ••¦ F2 for end for memory locations

You are incorrect here. The F1 and F2 commands merely copy the location of tranport counter to the memory start and end fields respectively. Again, there is NO shortcut to directly edit the text fields like the edit counter command (Apple+T).

Mouse-ing is always a pain for small box(s) that you have to point the cursor at, consequently, I highly recommend looking to see if there is
a key command (shift+L) already configured for your particular need.
If not, create one if possible.

Not possible. The string code of editing the memory start/end, or selection start/end fields is not present in the commands list at all. As for the Memory link on/off, auto-rewind features, the problems with these methods has been described in my first post. Whenever "Memory Play" is enabled, you cannot enter a location into the transport counter and have DP play from there unless you first enter the command "Enter Counter In Memory Start". This would not be an issue if there was a shortcut to directly edit the memory start field just as their is for editing the transport counter and if there wasn't a bug in the "Play from selection start" command whenever "Memory Play" is engaged. --Again, that is all stated in my first post.

Thanks BobK for your link to the suggestion box. I'll definitely drop MOTU a line.

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:46 am

hkc116,

merreck was right in giving his suggestion. I use this too to have this functionality in DP.

Your point is a bit different, though. What you're saying is that the values you enter in the DP counter do not automatically translate, as would happen in PT.

This is true if you use the counter.

It is not true if you use the mouse and click in the timeline. Snapt to Grid set to a sensible value and/or markers plus link memory interplay solve any issue regarding focal points in an arrangement.

Even in PT I use more the mouse/marker combo than the counter if I know for sure that there are focal points.

Hope this helps.

musicarteca · Post by **musicarteca** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:01 am

Hi K.C.

Although I don't think it can be done exactly the PT way this could be a way around it:

If you enable Link Selection to Memory and Memory Play, then clicking on the timeline, or inside a soundbite with the letter "i" depressed, will start playback from that point for many passes until you change the insertion point. If you don't mind mousing around that would do.

Now, to link the insertion point to the counter there is a shoutcut Command-. (period). So you can place the insertion point to start a playback, change the counter to the new location and then use the shortcut to move the insertion point to the counter. Sure it is also a two step process, but I though I give you another method that could be useful to you.

I personally don't like to work with the Link Selection to Memory and Memory Play enabled unless i am punching in/out, I am use to enable the auto rewind and using the F1 key to update the Memory Start point.

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:16 am

Sorry.. I didn't read the whole topic, so maybe this isn't answer you need.

If you hit ctrl + space bar, DP always starts from previous selection (e.g. I-beam).

musicarteca · Post by **musicarteca** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:19 am

PJ wrote:Sorry.. I didn't read the whole topic, so maybe this isn't answer you need.

If you hit ctrl + space bar, DP always starts from previous selection (e.g. I-beam).

That's it! Now combine that with command-. and you can update the insert point to counter. So now it could be a one step process, simply play back and update the insert point to counter when you need. The big advantage is that you still can start play back from the insert point or from the counter, without having to change any preferences.

hkc116 · Post by **hkc116** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:12 am

It is not true if you use the mouse and click in the timeline. Snapt to Grid set to a sensible value and/or markers plus link memory interplay solve any issue regarding focal points in an arrangement.
Even in PT I use more the mouse/marker combo than the counter if I know for sure that there are focal points.

First of all, for your example to work, "Memory Play" and "Link Selection to Memory" would both have to be enabled. Then, with the edit grid selected, you choose your start and end location points with the I-beam or other commands to set start/end memory fields. This method, on the whole, is less flexible than the tranport functionality I am speaking of. For example, if I want to make any edits, while keeping my current transport start and end times, I cannot. This is because I have the link selection to memory and memory play functions enabled, so every time I click anywhere in the sequence editor, my playback locations are changed! To recap : This workaround does not allow EDITING at all, if you want to keep your playback start and end times intact. The features "Play from selection start" and "Play edit selection" were made because people do not always want their playback locations changed everytime they highlight or click in a sequence editor.

This applies to musicarteca's proposed method as well, since the Link Selection and memory play functions are enabled in your example.

I personally don't like to work with the Link Selection to Memory and Memory Play enabled

And for good reason... we agree

I am use to enable the auto rewind and using the F1 key to update the Memory Start point.

You are use to the 2-step process that I find annoying. You have accustomed yourself to a workound that you should not have to use. I am use to hitting one shortcut to open the counter text field, typying in a playback location and being done with it. But like you, I will just have to get use to adding another step behind this, because all these other non-functioning "workarounds" just make more limitations that have to be worked around.

Sorry.. I didn't read the whole topic, so maybe this isn't answer you need.
If you hit ctrl + space bar, DP always starts from previous selection (e.g. I-beam).

This is incorrect. DP does NOT start from the previous selection. The command (CNTRL+Spacebar) is "Set Memory and Play Selection". This sets the memory start and end fields to match the CURRENT selection start and end fields and initiates playback. This is almost exactly the same as the method I describe in my first post of initiating memory play, except for you now have the option of selecting the start and end points with your mouse. You still are not able to locate via the transport counter (unless you do another 2-step shortcut) and you still have to deal with the "Play from selection start" bug that occurs whenever memory play is enabled. And if you use this method without Memory Play enabled, you have no access to pre or post roll. And once again, there is no shortcut to directly edit the selection start and end fields, so you either select your time range with the mouse, or navigate to the tiny entry field. The problem with selecting with the mouse, is that, there is the potential to have to zoom out first, to reach the desired playback location.

Now combine that with command-. and you can update the insert point to counter. So now it could be a one step proces

Combining any 2 commands is a two step process to start playback. I stated this in my first post.

I had tried and dismissed all of the "workarounds" posted here so far before I even started this thread. They all either pose more limitations or are just too clumsy to maintain quick and fluid control over the transport in the style I am used to. I will now have to adjust myself to the new workflow, I just posted here because I thought for sure this option should be in every DAW and that I just hadn't found it.
So...... having tried all of the workarounds, all I want to know, is if anyone has been able to create a configuration, in which I can enter a playback location in the counter, and have the transport automatically auto-rewind to the last counter location I entered without always having to re-link them. Thanks again
- K.C.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:16 am

Definitely closer though not it.
I know I'll use it..
thanks

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:05 am

First of all, for your example to work, "Memory Play" and "Link Selection to Memory" would both have to be enabled.

As you specified you're no newbie I expected you to know this.

This workaround does not allow EDITING at all, if you want to keep your playback start and end times intact.

I feel you dismissed too soon what I suggested. I wrote and specified that "link memory to selection" interplay has to come into play. By then unchecking the "m-arrow" I can perform edits AND keep the memory selection.

I use this function in PT and it is not simply activated by unchecking the preference you mentioned. I know for sure there is one more step to perfom in order to keep the selection AND edit. Again, unchecking that pref is not enough.

I also expect the suggestions of both PJ and Musicarteca to further help you with this issue.

As I wrote, that I know of, by using the counter you're not able to perform things in the same way you would in PT.

I had tried and dismissed all of the "workarounds" posted here so far before I even started this thread.

Even though I understand your frustration, it is not cool to read this. Hey, all we did was trying to help you out.

I really hope this helps.

Mugambi · Post by **Mugambi** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:14 am

hkc116

I've been using DP about 10 hours a day now since changing over from PT in January. I am constantly turning things on and off. DP does not work like PT. This will be frustrating to you as it was and still is at times for me. DP definitely requires more "moves" to do some simple tasks. DP does have it's advantages . The jury is still out for me as far as workflow is concerned whether to use DP as my only DAW. Stick with this forum as it is the only place that will relieve some of your pain. As for your question, you will have to choose a work around but none of them will work exactly like PT.

Mugambi

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ANY DP users with Pro Tools experience, I have one question

ANY DP users with Pro Tools experience, I have one question

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