CP33 into DP = two notes for each one played?

[Frodo]

Hey Jim:

Glad to hear that you got to the bottom of it. I'm wondering if you figured out how this started all of a sudden, assuming you haven't gotten new gear recently. I'm always interested in why things "just" start happening.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

...assuming you haven't gotten new gear recently. I'm always interested in why things "just" start happening.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =3&t=51730

[Killahurts]

It's MIDI Beat Clock, which the MTP manual says will be mirrored on all 8 outgoing ports, unless you must Realtime data on the MTP outputs. So I did and the green lights went off. The red Input light on Port One remains, and muting MIDI Time Code on that port doesn't fix it, nor does muting Realtime data on the Ins. Yamaha says they'll have a real keyboard tech call me... I hoping it can be turned off, although its probably not hurting anything.

I would be surprised if MIDI beat clock generation (not the same as MTC) can't be turned off on the Yamaha. I used to have the same problem with my Korg Karma, Lighting up the MTP, but there is a switch for it in the global prefs on Karma.

It's not supposed to make a difference.. but here, I found the MIDI to be less reliable, timing-wise, when all the inputs on the MTP are lit up that way.

[Gravity Jim]

Yeah, that's my concern, Killahurts. I have a Karma, too, and turned it that stuff of in global settings for the same reason, but I can't find this parameter in the Yamaha docs. In fact, I wonder why a simple stage piano feels the need to send beat clocks at all! The Karma I understand, but this?

[Tobor]

This thread is bringing back some bad memories.

I used to slave external keyboards with MIDI Clock for years as my main way of working, but around DP4 things went haywire and I couldn't use MIDI Time Clock anymore without having stuck notes, bizarre speed changes etc. I think it's better now but the rare occasions I use my Yamaha PSR I now save to a standard MIDI file instead. Mostly using VIs now and haven't used or needed MTC.

I also have muted the real time MIDI clock outputs in Clockworks, but haven't messed with the settings in ages since all I have hooked up the MTP now is a Yamaha S80 and the PSR. The red lights are beating on the inputs as we speak. I'm using an Axiom 49 via USB 90% of the time these days and have found it to be problem free. Hopefully there's still access to the Clockworks settings in the current OS.

Good luck getting everything straightened out. Curious.....did you try testing your new keyboard setup in Logic?

[Shooshie]

Reading the MTP manual (yes, I still have one) and some experimenting proved the pudding:

It's MIDI Beat Clock, which the MTP manual says will be mirrored on all 8 outgoing ports, unless you must Realtime data on the MTP outputs. So I did and the green lights went off. The red Input light on Port One remains, and muting MIDI Time Code on that port doesn't fix it, nor does muting Realtime data on the Ins. Yamaha says they'll have a real keyboard tech call me... I hoping it can be turned off, although its probably not hurting anything.

So the double note problem is fixed and now this is sorted too. I have to say.... Playing Cinesamples' "Piano In Blue" with this controller was an epic experience. I ended up dragging out all my old piano bar tunes from my solo lounge singer days, and it just felt so great.

Thanks again, ya'll.

All Yamaha devices have a constant MIDI output of one message, which IIRC is called Active Sensing. Look that up in the manual or online, and you may find a way to turn it off. On the older instruments which I've owned, it was not possible to turn it off, again IIRC. I've never known how to use it, but I believe it is for Yamaha devices to recognize each other on a MIDI network. I've always tried to keep each device on its own cable and channels, so they've never had the opportunity to work together or find each other. But that's what's flashing constantly on your MTP from the Yamaha channel.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Here is something I found on Active Sensing. This is more information than I've ever seen on the subject.

http://www.yamaha.co.jp/manual/english/ ... ve+Sensing

Turns out, it's there to prevent accidental stuck notes in case of a failure of the connection or any instrument on that connection. If it does not receive a reply to its active sensing for over 300 ms, it shuts off all notes. Fortunately, it apparently doesn't do that unless the device sending the note-on also has active sensing.

Shooshie

[Gravity Jim]

Shooshie, the CP33s documentation is mighty lean, but I came to this conclusion:

Part of the MIDI stream is Beat Clock, because the MTP AV manual says that Beat Clock coming in on any port will be mirrored at all MIDI outputs, and can be stopped by filtering Realtime data. When I applied that filter, the all-green-lights-ON behavior stopped, so I think that must be Beat Clock.

But yes, the keyboard is also sending Active Sensing data, and in Yamaha tradition, it can't be turned off. So the red light on cable stays on, even if I filter Realtime data on that input. So that makes me wonder... Is Clockworks failing to apply the filter, or is the filter applied post-input and the red light will stay on even if the filter is working?

Either way, it doesn't matter... I sont think the data coming in on cable 1 won't affect MIDI timing in DP now that I don't have the clock echoed out to everything attached to the interface (and being one of the last hardware holdouts, it seems, I've still got one device or another on all eight ports of that box).

[HCMarkus]

Why not just connect the Yamaha via USB Jim?

[Gravity Jim]

No need. It's working great with the MTP AV (just easier this way, as it was replacing a master controller in a location in my room where a pair of MIDI cables already existed). Yes, it sends sensing data, but with the echo muted on the outs, it's not an issue.

I already have one USB key board, a small Arturia I keep on my desk (for simple "need to add one chord here" kinds of things), and it's problematic. I don't know if all USB devices do this, but I have to switch this one off and back on to get the MIDI data into DP once in a while.

BTW, now that I've had a chance to live with it for a while, I love the board. Much richer MIDI information (especially on releases... extremely dynamic control of samples or models with release envelopes) and a fantastic continuous-control foot pedal... feels fantastic. Really brings back the joy of playing for me.

[HCMarkus]

What sustain pedal are you using?

I'd love to see sustain pedal velocity sensing for use with Ivory's pedal noise sample.

[Gravity Jim]

It came wth a Yamaha FC3 pedal, which does the continuous control thing. Very nicely made, too.