Black Friday Sales and No-Brainers

[Kazrog]

Thanks for helping to make the Recabinet sale a great success so far! If you guys are wondering, one of the things that sets Recabinet apart from any other IR loader is Speaker Dynamics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sandnFGW

[Shooshie]

Sorry guys, but I am a classical pianist and Alicia's Keys is just not quite it for me. I know it's $59 and I started out my day set to buy it and 1928 too. But it's a Yamaha, and the other is the right piano, but with dead strings. I just don't like Yamaha very much. Too thin, bright, not classical enough.

Besides my real piano, PianoTEQ is my #1, I also have Piano In Blue, and Emotional Piano although I never use it (it's a Kawai).

What I need is a Steinway D sample. I might get Imperfect's Steinway, but I'm not sold on it (and I got a discount offer on it today too). Galaxy D is dull. Ivory American D is very good - the closest thing to PianoTEQ I've heard, and I'm also considering EW Pianos Virtual. I'm concerned about the PLAY engine though. I wish I could try it out.

There's two kind of piano's out there. One that meets stylistic needs (1928, PIB, Emotional, etc..) and those that meet the pianist needs (PianoTEQ, Ivory).

1928 is the perfect example of a piano that seems great, sounds cool, but when I play it I think, eh.. it's not something I want to play or practice on for more than a few minutes. Same with PIB, and it's one of the better ones.

I always go back to PianoTEQ although it's not quite there yet, but it's really fun to play on. I need something like PianoTEQ, but with a little more realism.

I might buy Alicia's Keys but it's not that expensive normally anyway.

Not trying to be a snob, just can't find the right piano.

I'm a piano aficionado, too, and I had looked for the "just right" piano for years, but nothing quite got there for me. I've had every grand piano that Ivory has made, and I was using the Italian Grand. It was pretty good. Then the New York Steinway came out. The New York Steinway Grand (the real thing) is my favorite piano. I've never understood the Bösendorfer cult. The Italian pianos are excellent, and rank right up there at the top. But the New York Steinway is "home" to me, so when Ivory came out with it, I got it. I think Ivory finally got their sh*t together when they did this piano. It's simply the best sampled piano library I've ever used. I record classical players a lot, and when I need a better passage than a pianist played, I use the NY Steinway to fill in for the actual live piano I recorded. Just a note or two, or a chord or a small melodic passage, this piano can be made indistinguishable from the actual recording. I was just doing some more of that this evening. The artists involved totally approved of the sound! Of course, the original recording featured a New York Steinway Grand, impeccably tuned.

It's a great library, and I have no qualms about saying that it's Ivory's best, and certainly among the best two or three in existence, though I have not tried them all, of course.

Shooshie

[Prime Mover]

Oh yeah, I totally hear ya about having the right piano for what you do. I'm more a jazz/fusion guy myself, so AK is right up my alley, but it's probably not the best choice for classical. I've always appreciated Yamaha's for their evenness and sharper attack. Good classical pianos are just too dark for what I do. Actually, even with AK I tend to boost the high end slightly, dip the low mids, and compress the hell out of it to emphasize the attack. Horrifying for a classical musician, but perfect for a rock or jazz combo mix.

As I've said over and over, that's what I love about being a pianist in today's world: for the first time ever, the average musician can find the perfect piano for themselves, and even take it on the road! So it's great that everyone has a different piano, things would be boring otherwise. And I hope my AK mix doesn't sound like the same piano as other people's!

[frankf]

I've never understood the Bösendorfer cult.

Shooshie

I'm not a Bösendorfer fan for jazz ensemble recording, but for solo, the sound is incredible. Also, when i was with Gato Barbieri, we had an opportunity to share the bill with Oscar Peterson a few times (he's a Bösendorfer endorser) and play them and I must say, they filled the stage so that I needed almost no piano in the monitors. I was thrilled.
Frank



Frank Ferrucci

[labman]

Piano in Blue gets tons of use here, as well as braunschwieg upright, and Emotional Piano for underscoring.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Bosendorfers are known for a lot of things. The tone, range of expression, and the quality of this hand built instrument is unsurpassed. The responsiveness and sensitivity of the action is simply amazing. It is almost as if you could think the notes and the piano plays them.

Of course I am referring to the actual instrument and not any VI and only instruments of 7' or better yet, the 9' Imperial Concert Grand ($250k).

The keyboard doesn't stop at A but goes down to the C below - which legend has it was so Busoni could transcribe organ works that used those notes. Not too useful for standard rep, but when I get to play the Bozie, I use them.

The best known pianists to have used the instrument were Oscar Peterson and Victor Borge. In 1980/81 I was on tour and at the Boston Opera House they were loading out Borge's show before loading us in. His piano was still center stage and the crew went to lunch, locking me in the theatre with instructions to "not touch the piano" - but they knew what they were doing. It was my first run in with that instrument and I was totally hooked. My first CD was recorded with two matching 9' Bosedorfers (1997) and except for playing a few in piano stores, I haven't had much time on them since.

In my dreams I win the lottery and the first stop is snagging an Imperial Concert Grand.

If you've heard a Bosendorfer that didn't sound that great, consider that it might be the player who is to blame.

[mikehalloran]

I've never understood the Bösendorfer cult...

Bosendorfers are known for a lot of things. The tone, range of expression, and the quality of this hand built instrument is unsurpassed. The responsiveness and sensitivity of the action is simply amazing. It is almost as if you could think the notes and the piano plays them.

Of course I am referring to the actual instrument and not any VI and only instruments of 7' or better yet, the 9' Imperial Concert Grand ($250k).

The keyboard doesn't stop at A but goes down to the C below - which legend has it was so Busoni could transcribe organ works that used those notes. Not too useful for standard rep, but when I get to play the Bozie, I use them.

Ours is a Model 200 (6'7") from the early '20s with oversized hammers to bring out the bass. The recommendation was made by factory techs making a tour of Sherman Clay stores at the time. When placed side by side with a new one in 1979, the trebles were nearly identical but it was as if someone had turned up the bass control. It was an excellent recommendation.

As much as we like ours and the Imperial, our favorite Bösendorfer was a Model 225 (7'4") that we played in San Francisco about 10 years ago. They were willing to give us a special deal - only $125K - but we were putting daughters through school. The piano would have cost a lot less.

I've not seen a sample library of the 225 but it is a piano that sounds like none other. If you ever get a chance to play one, check it out. It has 92 keys (down to F) unlike the 97 of the 290 Imperial.

My older daughter knows she will inherit the 200 and the other daughter doesn't really play. Since my stroke, I can't play anymore. Still, if the budget ever allowed, I'd love to get a 225 for my wife.

My wife hates this picture. Someday, I'll get one without the banjos.

[Steve Steele]

Thanks for helping to make the Recabinet sale a great success so far! If you guys are wondering, one of the things that sets Recabinet apart from any other IR loader is Speaker Dynamics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sandnFGW

Hey Kazrog! I'm a big fan of Recab, and mixIR2 too, and I tell everyone about your app and how good it works. I hope the sale is going well for you. I didn't realize you were on this forum.

One comment if I may (here i go..). As a former touring bassist and current session player, I'd love to see someone add more bass cab and mic options. It seems that most of the cab IRs are done by guys who really know guitar cabs and mics very well, and bass seems to be a bit of an afterthought. Don't know if that's true, but it would really add value to an app if it had more specific bass IRs.

I can think of about 5 or 6 specific cabs and 3 or 4 mics that I would add.

Anyway, just my two cents. Thanks for the GREAT price this year. It turned out to be the only thing I bought!

[Steve Steele]

I've never understood the Bösendorfer cult...

Bosendorfers are known for a lot of things. The tone, range of expression, and the quality of this hand built instrument is unsurpassed. The responsiveness and sensitivity of the action is simply amazing. It is almost as if you could think the notes and the piano plays them.

Of course I am referring to the actual instrument and not any VI and only instruments of 7' or better yet, the 9' Imperial Concert Grand ($250k).

The keyboard doesn't stop at A but goes down to the C below - which legend has it was so Busoni could transcribe organ works that used those notes. Not too useful for standard rep, but when I get to play the Bozie, I use them.

Ours is a Model 200 (6'7") from the early '20s with oversized hammers to bring out the bass. The recommendation was made by factory techs making a tour of Sherman Clay stores at the time. When placed side by side with a new one in 1979, the trebles were nearly identical but it was as if someone had turned up the bass control. It was an excellent recommendation.

As much as we like ours and the Imperial, our favorite Bösendorfer was a Model 225 (7'4") that we played in San Francisco about 10 years ago. They were willing to give us a special deal - only $125K - but we were putting daughters through school. The piano would have cost a lot less.

I've not seen a sample library of the 225 but it is a piano that sounds like none other. If you ever get a chance to play one, check it out. It has 92 keys (down to F) unlike the 97 of the 290 Imperial.

My older daughter knows she will inherit the 200 and the other daughter doesn't really play. Since my stroke, I can't play anymore. Still, if the budget ever allowed, I'd love to get a 225 for my wife.

My wife hates this picture. Someday, I'll get one without the banjos.

Wow Mike! It's a blessing to have that around the house. Great!

[Steve Steele]

Sorry guys, but I am a classical pianist and Alicia's Keys is just not quite it for me. I know it's $59 and I started out my day set to buy it and 1928 too. But it's a Yamaha, and the other is the right piano, but with dead strings. I just don't like Yamaha very much. Too thin, bright, not classical enough.

Besides my real piano, PianoTEQ is my #1, I also have Piano In Blue, and Emotional Piano although I never use it (it's a Kawai).

What I need is a Steinway D sample. I might get Imperfect's Steinway, but I'm not sold on it (and I got a discount offer on it today too). Galaxy D is dull. Ivory American D is very good - the closest thing to PianoTEQ I've heard, and I'm also considering EW Pianos Virtual. I'm concerned about the PLAY engine though. I wish I could try it out.

There's two kind of piano's out there. One that meets stylistic needs (1928, PIB, Emotional, etc..) and those that meet the pianist needs (PianoTEQ, Ivory).

1928 is the perfect example of a piano that seems great, sounds cool, but when I play it I think, eh.. it's not something I want to play or practice on for more than a few minutes. Same with PIB, and it's one of the better ones.

I always go back to PianoTEQ although it's not quite there yet, but it's really fun to play on. I need something like PianoTEQ, but with a little more realism.

I might buy Alicia's Keys but it's not that expensive normally anyway.

Not trying to be a snob, just can't find the right piano.

I'm a piano aficionado, too, and I had looked for the "just right" piano for years, but nothing quite got there for me. I've had every grand piano that Ivory has made, and I was using the Italian Grand. It was pretty good. Then the New York Steinway came out. The New York Steinway Grand (the real thing) is my favorite piano. I've never understood the Bösendorfer cult. The Italian pianos are excellent, and rank right up there at the top. But the New York Steinway is "home" to me, so when Ivory came out with it, I got it. I think Ivory finally got their sh*t together when they did this piano. It's simply the best sampled piano library I've ever used. I record classical players a lot, and when I need a better passage than a pianist played, I use the NY Steinway to fill in for the actual live piano I recorded. Just a note or two, or a chord or a small melodic passage, this piano can be made indistinguishable from the actual recording. I was just doing some more of that this evening. The artists involved totally approved of the sound! Of course, the original recording featured a New York Steinway Grand, impeccably tuned.

It's a great library, and I have no qualms about saying that it's Ivory's best, and certainly among the best two or three in existence, though I have not tried them all, of course.

Shooshie

Shooshie - Yeah. I totally agree with you on all of that. When I was young I always thought Bösendorfer was so cool, but as I got older I never really could quiet except it's sound. I'm sure there are great Bösendorfers to play on. Making a good sample of one, I'm not so sure, although I'm slightly impressed with both EW's and VSL's Imperial Grand (although you can't mix mics)

If the Ivory New York Steinway is the same as the Ivory American Grand D that I played yesterday, then yes, of all of the piano libs I've tried, that one came the closest to being a Steinway pianist's piano. It sounded really good and was well balanced. It also played well (although I was playing it over a server).

There are pianos for playing the piano repertoire, and then there are piano libs for certain sounds. For example, on 8Dio's site, there is a demo of the 1928 playing Debussy's "Reflets dans l'eau". It's sounds nice if you're not familiar with the piece, but it's not really true to the piece either. Not that it has to be, but I wouldn't want to play that piano day in and day out. I still plan on buying it for that time when that sound is right. Listen to a performence of that piece, (the Paul Jacobs' recording, while maybe not the sought after classic, is still one of my favorites - or Claudio Arrau of course.).

Piano in Blue is nice now that they've tightened up the latency, and rerecorded the direct sound through a real tape machine, instead of a tape emulator. Made a lot of difference, although i still never use the tape section. It too will kill my CPU once it reaches too many voices, whereas PianoTEQ has no problem with that ever.

But right now, I'm looking for an everyday Steinway, that I can also record.

Ivory seems to be at or near the top for that need.

Turned out to be a good thread. Thanks everyone for your input.

[Shooshie]

If you've heard a Bosendorfer that didn't sound that great, consider that it might be the player who is to blame.

No, it's the instrument. I just don't like the sound. I'm a Steinway fan, and the Böse just doesn't have what I want in a sound. I've heard a few great pianists on Bösendorfer, but I've also had the opportunity to play to my heart's content on several, one of which was their "modern" issue that had some astronomical price tag so high that I don't even remember it accurately. Seems like it was half a million. Also played Fazioli, which I like better than Bösendorfer. But I'm a New York Steinway kind of guy. I like the action, the tone, the sound, the construction… it's just what I prefer, and I'm not someone who just "doesn't get it."

I do like the way Bösendorfer wraps their low strings. You get clear chords in the extreme bass, and that's something no other piano does like Bösendorfer. But I still would rather hear a Steinway.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

About 10 years ago, I was invited to play on a piano I'd never even heard of. The brand was Seiler. I was flabbergasted. It was one of the best pianos I'd ever played, both in action and sound. I could not believe my ears. Next to it was a Bösendorfer, which sounded anemic by comparison. Of course, I readily admit that that particular Bösendorfer was old, worn, and not well regulated. That was my one and only time to play or hear a Seiler (unless I've unknowingly heard them in recordings), but I was extremely impressed by that one. (still not a Steinway, though)

Has anyone else played a Seiler? If so, what did you think of it?

Shoosh

[Kazrog]

Hey Kazrog! I'm a big fan of Recab, and mixIR2 too, and I tell everyone about your app and how good it works. I hope the sale is going well for you. I didn't realize you were on this forum.

One comment if I may (here i go..). As a former touring bassist and current session player, I'd love to see someone add more bass cab and mic options. It seems that most of the cab IRs are done by guys who really know guitar cabs and mics very well, and bass seems to be a bit of an afterthought. Don't know if that's true, but it would really add value to an app if it had more specific bass IRs.

I can think of about 5 or 6 specific cabs and 3 or 4 mics that I would add.

Anyway, just my two cents. Thanks for the GREAT price this year. It turned out to be the only thing I bought!

Thanks for the kind words! Years ago, Digital Performer was my primary DAW, so I go back to the Unicornation days around here. I still have a great respect for MOTU and this community, and I pay attention whenever Recabinet is mentioned online.

Recabinet is primarily a guitar-focused product. Rest assured, though, that bass isn't an afterthought, the Recabinet library will be expanded with more bass cabinets in 2013. In the mean time, the two bass cabinets can get a variety of great sounds, especially blended. Also, there's nothing wrong with blending a bass cabinet and a guitar cabinet - I've gotten some very full-voiced bass tones this way in Recabinet 3.

[Steve Steele]

Hey Kazrog! I'm a big fan of Recab, and mixIR2 too, and I tell everyone about your app and how good it works. I hope the sale is going well for you. I didn't realize you were on this forum.

One comment if I may (here i go..). As a former touring bassist and current session player, I'd love to see someone add more bass cab and mic options. It seems that most of the cab IRs are done by guys who really know guitar cabs and mics very well, and bass seems to be a bit of an afterthought. Don't know if that's true, but it would really add value to an app if it had more specific bass IRs.

I can think of about 5 or 6 specific cabs and 3 or 4 mics that I would add.

Anyway, just my two cents. Thanks for the GREAT price this year. It turned out to be the only thing I bought!

Thanks for the kind words! Years ago, Digital Performer was my primary DAW, so I go back to the Unicornation days around here. I still have a great respect for MOTU and this community, and I pay attention whenever Recabinet is mentioned online.

Recabinet is primarily a guitar-focused product. Rest assured, though, that bass isn't an afterthought, the Recabinet library will be expanded with more bass cabinets in 2013. In the mean time, the two bass cabinets can get a variety of great sounds, especially blended. Also, there's nothing wrong with blending a bass cabinet and a guitar cabinet - I've gotten some very full-voiced bass tones this way in Recabinet 3.

Very cool! I go way back too the old days around here too.

When I track bass, well lately, I'll use an Eden 4x10XLT, an Eden 1x18, an Eden head (oldies but still goodies in the right hands), and also a Bogner Ecstasy Head, with a 4x12 cab for either some warmth or if I need distortion. I also have access to my bassist friends stuff that I don't have.

I found certain mic combos that are different that work really well. And I go DI of course.

If I promise to not blow up your email may I make a request? I'm sure you're well on top of it, but IMHO, I'm pretty darn good with using bass cabs.

Anyway, good to meet you Kazrog. I guess I'm on your email list, so I'll hear about updates.

I plan on taking the line out from my Bogner (post power tubes) tomorrow and I'm really looking forward to getting some great dual mono sounds from Recab 3!

Thanks!

[HCMarkus]

I just ordered two 240 GB Intel 330 SSDs from Newegg... $140 each. They had 180 GB 330's for $90 but sold out quick.