Chunks Question

[bayswater]

MLC, in my view, v-racks aren't sequences by a long shot, DP Songs maybe.

Right, so just call them sequences, V-racks, and songs. Nothing is gained by using a common term for all three of these. In fact it just causes confusion. In the manual, it claims V-racks are sequences, and then goes on to point out that it has none of the common characteristics of sequences. How does that help explain what a v-rack is?

[Shooshie]

Chunks is fine. If you're talking about Texas Style Chili! And I'm pretty sure that Texas Style Chili contains V-Racks, Sequences, and Songs. Especially about an hour after you eat it. So… chunks is a great descriptor. Let's just all agree to call it Chunks! After all, if they change it, they're going to have to go through that whole manual AND the PDF, and change them all!

You guys have been forgetting that there's a PDF now. Once it's on PDF, you can't change it, because it's been uploaded everywhere. And if that's not enough to make you want to blow chunks, I don't know what kind of sequence you need! Oh, and when you finish changing your drawers, hang the dirty ones out there on the V-Rack to dry.

Really, let's just stick to chunks… Ok, that was some really bad imagery. Maybe we really should just flush the chunks out of DP. Nahh… I've hated that name for so many years, now, that I wouldn't know how to act if they changed it to something I adore; I'm really for keeping the chunks.

Shooshie

[Kubi]

Chunks are also a great way of importing portions of other pieces, i.e. entire string arrangements.

Import the sequence in question, delete everything but the stuff you want to keep, then put the imported sequence next to the already existing sequence in a Song chunk.

Or even better, drag the whole sequence from the chunks window into the left side of the track window of your target sequence, and bam, all tracks are there, inside your target sequence, with assignments, data, everything. If you then accidentally mess things up in editing, you still have the original import untouched in your chunks window.

If I want to make sure my new project doesn't get bogged down with too much extraneous information (i.e. because the source sequence has lots of audio, but I only need very little of it), I'll open the source project first, duplicate the sequence in question, delete everything I don't need, name it sthg like "string export seq", then open the target project, import the stripped sequence from the source project, and select to import only the soundbites needed in the sequence.

Sky's the limit, Chunks are perhaps DP's most unique and powerful differentiating feature.
In other sequencers people "store things at measure 1000" and tricks like that - but we all know what happens, you snip a few things out of a few different tracks, you forget there's stuff a million miles downstream, then it's all FUBAR when you try and get it back....

[cuttime]

Thanks for those images, Shoosh!

I vote for "Blobs"!

[daniel.sneed]

[...] Nahh… I've hated that name for so many years, now, that I wouldn't know how to act if they changed it to something I adore.[...]

+1
Just wanna sing: *Everybody have fun with chunks! U-la-la !* (funky feeling)

[dewdman42]

+1 to many comments, I didn't read all, so sorry if I'm repeating.

Chunks in DP are really flexible and can do many things. They are essentially, as some others said, just stored sequences, per the old Opcode Vision verbage. Each chunk can be a complete multi-track thing on its own.

I see the main advantage to chunks that you can have one project file with more than one completely operational sequence in it, where each one starts at bar 1:0:0. Then you can build up a final sequence which is made up of chunks which start at certain bars or smpte points in that final sequence.

This could be used to create parts of songs that are later built up into songs, or it could be used to create seperate film cues which later end up added to a final full film score, etc..

If you use a V-Rack to host your instruments and do the mixing, then these different chunks in a project can all share the same V-rack mixer settings, which is really really valuable for getting consistency and avoiding having to reload samples a lot, etc while switching around between cues or whatever.

I never liked the name chunks, its like something some programmer came up with but its been around in the MOTU world for decades already, so we're stuck with it. Anyway that's what they are for and you can put them to use lots of different creative ways.

[dayamayii]

Aw Kubi, you had me excited for a moment there with the dragging one sequence onto the Tracks window of another. I thought I might get the markers copied! But no. Is there any way to do that? I just want to merge two movie cues (that are currently in separate chunks) because it's turned out there'll be overlap.

(Don't think I've set my profile sig up here, but I'm using DP7.24)

[Steve Steele]

For an album, I'd use a chunk for each song.

You do this? You have whole albums open in on session as separate Chunks? How do you have the RAM or CPU for that?

I might try that for a couple of songs that segue. Interesting..

The only problem is that I need to transfer to Pro Tools. But that's cool you use it that way.

Actually, all this time I've been using DP I've never used Chunks. But I should do some orchestral cues to see what I'm missing. Manual time.

[Steve Steele]

After all, if they change it, they're going to have to go through that whole manual AND the PDF, and change them all!

Yeah, and is David Pouge still writing their manual? He can't be cheap.

[Steve Steele]

to add to what MLC said, I would offer that Chunks are the (near) perfect solution for..."versions".
In a song that could be (a.) a Chunk "Song with the Hammond", (b.) copy that Chunk, remove the Hammond and replace it with a horn section, (c.)etc., etc. Versions...
Where it *really* comes in huge for me is ad music. It's not uncommon to do 5 - 6 - 7 or more demos. Each is a Chunk. Then, once they buy off on one, there will be a :60, a :30, a :15 and maybe a couple of :10's. Again, all Chunks. I'm finishing a McD project now that's up to 28 Chunks. Sure-as-hell, someone's going to ring up and say, "hey Willie...remember that demo you did about 3 weeks ago...?" And I'll just pull up that Chunk.

BTW, the reason that I referred to Chunks as a "Near" perfect solution, one major thing that MOTU could do (and I and others have requested) is to put dates on Chunks in the Chunks window. Same as Soundbites in their window. It would make a a bit easier to find that Chunk from 3 weeks ago!

Doesn't having 28 Chucks open take an awful lot of memory? If you had a really large template, one that came close to maxing out the CPU. how would you manage this workflow? I'm guessing that if you did, and in a new Chunk, like you suggested, if you were to add an organ (sample for this question, because it takes a lot of memory), then would you disable the track that it replaced? Let's say you had a version with e. piano and a version with organ, would you disable instrument tracks as you replace them?

I've never needed to use Chunks, although that was DP's big selling point in the early days. Remember those Electronic Musician articles, "Linear vs non-Linear sequencers"?

As I start to get into film and orchestral music, and I need cues ready, I see Chunks as very valuable workflow because it allows you to keep multiple sequences open, have a playlist and automate that. It's a really cool feature actually. But since I track and edit one song at a time, it generally doesn't have a place in my workflow. I still do the "Save as.." trick for versions, and have projects that have over 100 versions. But I would like to use Chunks if it suited me.

So how do you manage memory with that many Chunks?

Thanks

[MIDI Life Crisis]

You can only have one chuck open and active at a time. No difference in CPU regardless of 1 chunk or 10,000 chunks.

[Steve Steele]

So when one Chunks is active, are the other Chunk disabled from memory?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

So when one Chunks is active, are the other Chunk disabled from memory?

They are disabled from playback. The chunk itself takes very little memory. The data is another story. One one chunk project with the same amount of data as a project with 50 chunks (but spread out via chunks) is negligible.

In terms of RAM, DP does not hold on to all RAM. In fact, the biggest PITA with chunks is every time you change one, it reloads all VIs used in the new play selected chunk- so obviously it is releasing the previously loaded chunks VIs from memory.

Using a V-Rack solves that, but unless it has changed and I missed it, V-Racks don't get included in a bounce to disk unless you freeze them first. I'll have to check that again unless someone knows and can enlighten us.

Look, DP was designed to use the chunks, not to have all cues in a separate projects. You can do that. You can also take a separate shopping bag for every item you buy at the grocery store. It's the same logic.

The only argument one might make is that if a project with a lot of chunks get corrupted, you loose all of them. But I haven't had those kind of errors in a very long time in DP and good backup practices (can you say: TimeMachine?) will circumvent that contingency.

No baby, a chunk is a good thing...

[Steve Steele]

In fact, the biggest PITA with chunks is every time you change one, it reloads all VIs used in the new play selected chunk- so obviously it is releasing the previously loaded chunks VIs from memory.

That's what I was asking. Cool.

Look, DP was designed to use the chunks, not to have all cues in a separate projects. You can do that. You can also take a separate shopping bag for every item you buy at the grocery store. It's the same logic.

I think I knew that one. That's why I bought it in the first place.

[Shooshie]

Using a V-Rack solves that, but unless it has changed and I missed it, V-Racks don't get included in a bounce to disk unless you freeze them first. I'll have to check that again unless someone knows and can enlighten us.

No need to freeze. BTD will write the MIDI's audio to the bounced file. It's worked that way for a few years, at least. Of course, you've got to select the MIDI track and be sure that you are capturing the audio of the V-Rack instruments back in the main chunk.

Shoosh