Why is the L3 the only loud master limiter available?

[wylie]

Gee, are we really comparing limiters by how loud they get? Just put a sticker on your CD: "Turn up volume till your speakers blow! Then you'll hear the finesse we mixed into it!"



Shooshie

WHAT!

[positivemu]

Archer - I strongly disagree with virtually everything in your post. I began this thread with a simple question. Many people answered it. How is that complaining?

One can have had the many experiences I have had with mastering and still pose the question "what is the competion for the L3?". I don't see how that contradicts my experiences.

Finally - I do not consider a post which hijacks the subject helpful. Especially when I specifically requested that we not go to that place of debating the merits/evils of using heavy limiting with an L3 etc.

[Timeline]

Hey! Hey!

Were all entitled to a bad day once in a great while.

It's no big deal, really.

[Archer]

Maybe it's me, but what I read from Shooshie's post is the following: "As the elements on which a limiter is being judged is not solely based on loudness, there are alternatives."

Maybe it's me, but the question you asked has me receiving the following message: s083! There is no alternative. I can't believe nobody in the industry has come up with a challanging product! Why? To me, this is complaining. A positive approach would have been: "Are there alternatives to the L3"? Which mastering plug-ins would you recommend?"

On experience, I'm not saying you have none. But as I happend to spend good money for mastering sessions, I experienced that the type of loudness you might whish to achieve can be achieved in other ways, with a chain of processors, for example. The L3 is not the only ticket.

This said, I have no problem to apologize if I misunderstood what your intention is. In any case, "can't you read" doesn't sound good to me.

Now, you probably want more elements:

1) The L3 is a TEC nominee 2005. I think it is fair to think that it's not very easy to come up with a product that gets a nomination.

2) What other products are in the same ballpark? TC Electronic MD3 Stereo Mastering for Powercore and TDM.

3) Sony Oxford Limiter has appeared recently, otherwise I think it would belong to the nominees as well. PT platform.

It's not there aren't alternatives. The question is: "Which solutions do support my platform?"

[mesaken]

I just upgraded to the Platinum + L3 bundle, which includes the L3, if you already own the Platinum bundle, and a year of Waves WUP, for $300. Its the best deal they've offered in a while.
The L3 includes the Multimaximizer, which is their 5-band linear phase EQ
integrated with the limiter, and a simpler Ultramaximizer version, very
similar to the L2 interface.
I also own the UA and PSP plugs. I have to say that the power of the 5-band linear EQ along with the L3 limiter gives me mix sculpting power that
is most impressive.

[Shooshie]

positivemu, I'm sorry for messing with you. Just couldn't resist. I mean, I can think of a lot of reasons to get the L3, which is probably the best of the lot of limiters, but loudness is not among the reasons I think of. I mean, yeah, limiters make things loud if you want them to. But the beauty of the L3 is HOW it does it (as in, keeping all those transients in phase while amplifying them), not to mention what it DOESN'T do (like "pumping"). It is so cool that Waves made this great app, starting with the L1, and the L2 (both of which I have), and now the L3 seems to be the Limiter to end all limiters. Personally, I can't justify getting it since it's expensive; and since the L2--combined with the Linear Phase Multi-Band Processor--basically do the same thing, I can't afford to spend that much on redundancy.

But I totally agree with you. If you want to smash through the ceiling, through the roof, and blast right out to the Space Station (like that light on top of the Luxor Pyramid in Las Vegas), then the L3 is definitely your Mama! Pull that ol' threshold on down to about 10 there and crank that thing up!

Shooshie

[chrispick]

I'd like to put in another good word for Ozone3. It's more than just a good, flexible maximizer. It has multi-band compression tied to multi-band excitation, a nice precise EQ and meters for checking phase, toggling left/right/mono mix, multiple dithering choices and other good stuff.

Don't be misled by the fact that M-Audio distributes it now. iZotope, the originator of the app, makes nice tools at pretty low prices.

Check it out: www.izotope.com

[positivemu]

Hi Shooshie - thanks for your post. Sorry for not understanding that you were kidding around w/me. It's pretty easy to misinterpret what somebody writes I guess as I have been pretty misinterpreted myself on this board lately! Any way, I think, based on your thoughts about PMG's working style, that we are probably more in agreement than most on the dangers of overlimiting.

That said - I appreciated your thoughts on the L3. It does "sound" very good and it allows me to do the level of "medium" limiting that I do with Finis but with virtually no artifacts. And if I have to, I can push it even farther and not hate myself in the morning.(':roll:')

I found a great deal on one via an authorized dealer so I'm going for it.
Thanks again for your input.

[Archer]

The circle goes to full-completion, another cycle of life begins.

[Kubi]

I tried demos of a bunch of the alternatives, and for me Waves L3 ended up being pretty much without competition. YMMV, of course.

Freakin' ridiculously expensive indeed it is... but into the bullet bite I had to.

Only consolation: it is a very nice dynamic EQ on top of just being a limiter....

[sdfalk]

The circle goes to full-completion, another cycle of life begins.

Beautiful.."sniffle"