Ultralite & AKG K702 - headphone amp?

[Ultrabra]

I'm using a MOTU Ultralite Mk3 - I'm about to buy new headphones, AKG K702 - will I need a seperate headphone amp or is the Ultralite Phones connection goin to be enough?

[stephentayler]

Well, I own a $1,000 headphone amp (it is fantastic!) but when I got the Ultralight Mk3 I was most impressed with the sound of the headphone output.... clean with plenty of level, at least with my Sony headphones. It was a marked improvement certainly from the original Traveler I also use.

Indeed good enough to get you going!!

Cheers

Stephen

[crduval]

I have this exact setup, and it sounds very good. The level from the ultralite is lower than I expected but perfectly fine for me for listening back or mix checking. I use a different set of headphones and headphone amp for tracking though (I am in a one room project studio).


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[Steve7]

I have this set-up. K702s sound fine through the regular front phones socket.

[Ultrabra]

Great - thanks for the replies. I'm picking up the phones next week, so will try it out without an amp, and I'm now confident it will work fine, good to know.

[Prime Mover]

I have about the same setup, but in my case, with an 828mkII. I use a small Behringer headphone amp, if only to split out the channels. When I do tracking, I usually send one mix out the headphone out (right to some cans), and then send a second mix to main out 1-2, and have the headphone amp there. That way I can send the click to just the drummer, and have everyone else on the headphone amp. My experience is that the headphone out is on the low end, but loud enough for most purposes.

[mhschmieder]

My K702's just arrived a few days ago and I haven't plugged them in yet, but don't forget they need 50-100 hours of burn-in before they really bloom.

For that reason, I am holding off further on buying a high-end headphone amp. The ones in the RME Fireface UFX are pretty good, actually (unlike the one in the Fireface 800), but it's been too long since I owned a MOTU 828 to remember how good its headphone out is.

[Ultrabra]

Got the headphones. Nice. Working fine with the Ultralite without any additional amp.

Not really sure what you mean by "burn in" - will I notice something after the 50-10 hours?

[mhschmieder]

It's a term for giving the circuitry time to stabilize from use. Same with a car; as parts get used more, the usage patterns sort of "burn in" a signature that calibrates it in some ways to work best with a particular driver's style. Not quite the same with sound, but its the closest analogy I can think of.

[stevemilnersound]

It's a term for giving the circuitry time to stabilize from use. Same with a car; as parts get used more, the usage patterns sort of "burn in" a signature that calibrates it in some ways to work best with a particular driver's style. Not quite the same with sound, but its the closest analogy I can think of.

Interesting take on the subject. Having a quick look around the web, it's interesting to see the different opinions concerning the AKG K702 headphones. The only place I can find anyone suggesting these (burn-in) times of hundreds of hours (one user suggests 300 hours!) is on HiFi forums. Neither the manufacturer or any reputable dealer I can find suggests any such requirement. . . or even eludes to such a process. It also does not seem to be possible to find ANYONE making these claims who can provide any actual data to support their claims.

Burning-in a pair of headphones, at the most, you will loosen up the suspension (slightly) of the low driver, something that would occur overtime regardless. This may (depending on the driver) result in slightly more low end performance. It is fine to expedite this process by "burning them in", but suggesting that when you hit hour 150 or 300 that there will be some astounding change in sound quality, is just not true.

The above quoted post suggests that some circuitry inside the headphones will stabilize as a result of this process - this is simply not true. What circuitry are you referring to, and how do you see this "stabilization" process occurring in your mind?

I'm not going to go too far down the road of making car analogies on a sound forum, but suffice to say that your suggestions concerning the car burn-in process are equally as confusing. Some newer/modern cars do have computers on board that do some amazing things, but the idea of burning in a car traditionally has to do with allowing time for the piston rings to loosen up and therefore create a proper seal with the cylinders... again here we are talking about allowing a mechanical process to take place (allowing the rings to loosen up from their new "stiffer" state) in order to get a longer lifespan out of the engine, not to gain any performance advantage. This process historically has had nothing at all to do with burning in any "signatures" or calibrating anything to your "driving style".

It would be interesting to see some actual data to support the various burn-in claims. Telling me that something is going to "bloom" after 50-100 hours is simply just to vague. Is it 50 hours, or is it 100 hours? What is the measured difference in frequency response when put through these periods of time? Does 100 hours provide (twice) the blooming effect of 50 hours? If this is required to bring these headphones up to spec, why has the manufacturer not made any mention of it publicly?

Sorry to push this topic swerve even further.

[padaban]

Got the headphones. Nice. Working fine with the Ultralite without any additional amp.

Not really sure what you mean by "burn in" - will I notice something after the 50-10 hours?

Hi guys,
i just get the 702 as well and just plugged in to my ultralite... sounds good in fact, even if i find the power of the headphone amp a bit low. What i additionally find strange, the sound is distorted from -5dB. Have u experienced the same? I had no any similar problem with my previous headphones. I find no any detailed technical specification data of the headphone out of the ultralite... I've tried out the 702 on a mixer on much higher power, was no distortion, so to be honest i'm a bit downhearted. The setup sounds amazing but i would appreciate a bit more power. Do you all find the sound distorted above -5dB? Is this normal?

padaban

[padaban]

Update: my interface was running on bus power via FW, but as soon as i connected the AC adaptor, the result get significantly better! To doublecheck this i've unplugged/replugged the wall power, and it seems the headphone amp doesn't get enough power via bus power. I recon the power still low, but at least the distortion more or less disappeared.
I've asked MOTU, and the ultralite's headphone output is: 30 ohms 200 mW...
Since the K702's rated impedance is 62ohms, and max load is 200 mW, it may explains my impression.

[mikehalloran]

If you must remain bus powered, there are some battery powered headphone amps out there. I've never heard one that sounded great - but that isn't the issue in those situations.

[padaban]

No, i definitely don't need to remain on bus power, but i'm considering a headphone amp. If i would be satisfied with the bad quality of an amp running on battery power, i wouldn't take a headphone like K702, neither a motu interface I really didn't want to wire something additionally to my setup due to this issue, but it seems i must find out something

[mhschmieder]

Actually, that is a better match than most, and of course impedance matching is usually the biggest problem in getting good headphone sound (both in terms of quality and volume).

Not too surprised that bus power wouldn't get the best results though. Surely it is more reliable and consistent than battery power, however.

Good to hear the Ultralite has a good headphone amp; this is usually the weakest link on any piece of gear that throws one in as a "bonus".

My RME Fireface UFX is out for repairs at the moment (the front panel never worked, but I put off parting with it until the need arose to use its standalone USB thumb drive recording mode -- I timed the repairs for now as I have an unusually busy autumn full of business conferences and jazz gigs so can't get much recording done right now anyway).

But even using its headphone amp (much better than the earlier Fireface 800's), the K702's are the most satisfactory headphones I have ever owned, in terms of balance, imaging, flatness of the primary audible range for music, and in how they reveal details of a mix.

Thus, I don't think it will be necessary to splurge on a dedicated headphone amp, unless you need one for multiple cans and different impedances and levels. Sounds like you mostly just need to address the power issue on your Ultralite to get the best results.