My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

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sampolfonz
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My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by sampolfonz »

Firstly, I have loved DP and been a user for about 10 years now. There are some things that I have been suggesting now for some time that I really believe should be implemented into DP, especially since you are releasing a Windows version now, which suggests to me you are trying to go after the "masses" instead of just your die-hard Mac people who have been DP lovers for years.

1) There really needs to be a system to handle MIDI in parts or regions, allowing master parts or regions. It seems to me that you have that sort of ready to implement in your use of clippings. You should have clippings with an editor, so that a 2 measure drum part could be sequenced and then that is a Master clipping. Then, if that clipping is dragged into the sequence editor in a time line, it could be copied x number of times. If after inserting it into a song, you find that one hi-hat hit (for instance) is a bit too much velocity, all that would need to be done is to go into the Master clipping for that (part-region-event) and change it in the Master, then all of the instances of that in the song (sequence) would change to reflect the change in the Master.

This is a biggy. Logic, Cubase and Studio One Pro all have this option. I would think that since DP started out as a "MIDI" sequencer that you should already have had this in place. If you are going for the masses and wanting to expand your user base, you are going to need to address this. People who are used to sequencing in those other apps and then try to use DP and find that nothing is there like this are going to be disappointed. It takes so much longer to create a MIDI track for drums in DP than it does Cubase. That has been (probably) my biggest disappointment when using DP.

2) Default velocity in the MIDI editor. Why is this set at 64? I requested years ago that this be addressed. The default velocity in the drum editor can be changed, why cannot the default velocity in the MIDI editor be set? While I am addressing this, I think the MIDI editor needs an option to input a note and the velocity be changed before the clicker on the mouse button is released. Click, hold the mouse button down and scroll up or down to increase or decrease velocity (much like Studio One). I know how it is now, click the note in with the pencil tool (which puts the velocity at 64) then go down to the bottom row and increase velocity, one note at a time. This should not take this long. You need to check out Studio One Pro. They have this down and it is much faster to do MIDI entering with the pencil.

3) Text line under the Marker part to allow for chord symbols. Another suggestion that I have is there needs to be text line under the marker part to so that under a measure number a chord symbol can be inserted. Let me explain: I play using the Number system, (1 for tonic, 4 for sub-dominant, 5 for dominant, etc). One of my long running complaints of any of these sequencing programs is that there is nothing that runs along the time-line that shows chord charting that would allow for me as the user to see what chord I am in and know where I am during performance. Now, I write a chart in pencil, and number the measures of that chart with erasable red pen so that I know where I am in the sequence at any given time. IF I could just "chart" the song directly within the sequencer program it would be much, much better.

4) SOLO in the sequence editor. SOLO in the sequence editor is what I long for greatly. If I am working on an audio or MIDI track and I need to quickly solo that track I can't do it, short of going to the mixing board and hitting the solo switch for the track. It would be so, so, so much quicker to just be able to hit "S" key on the keyboard and be able to solo the track I am working on at that very moment. This is also in other programs and it is SWEET being able to do this.

5) Offset the song start. I would like to be able to have measure number -2, -1, 0, in front of the actual measure number one. Just a semantics thing, I guess for me.

6) The selection area. Why can't the selection area always stay selected. When bouncing down, I always have to make sure that all my tracks are visible, and that I have turned on the selection area (loop) and that I highlight the area, before bouncing to disk. This seems that it would be better without having to manually select what I want to bounce. It would save a step and would not get in the way of anything.

7) Pitch Audition. I would like to be able to hear the pitch changes as I am making them while moving the segments up or down.

8) Comp parts. When doing a comp, why can't the comp (and all associated takes) be in a container, so that, let's say I am doing a radio commercial that has three comp tracks (recording takes of someone doing script) and I want to be able to move the vocal take (comp and all associated takes) along in the time-line to place it in a different spot in the music bed. Now, the only way is to bounce "merge" the selected soundbites into a new merged audio file. But, let's say I want to make a change in a phrase later on in that selection. I have to make sure that I shift-click select, or drag-select all of the associated files in the comp and make sure I move them, or they will be out of place. Grouping or a container system would solve this.

I love the audio production sound of DP. Thick, bright, solid. It's probably the main reason I keep reaching for it when doing my work, however I wonder why development keeps going after guitar plug ins and such "trinket" type things instead of working on some of the basic elements that would improve work-flow and the basic production flow of DP. Don't most of us who are serious already have an array of plugins for these things? I want changes to make my work-flow more efficient in MIDI input, MIDI and audio part container system and just basic elements that will make my experience not so laborious.

DP is flexible, but I think that some things need to be put in place to deal with repeating MIDI and audio other than the LOOPING function. Do you realize how confusing this is? Loops, loops within loops? Master clippings (parts-regions-containers) would be much easier to deal with, then just copy the master to many places, make one change in a master and it reflects throughout the entire sequence. Just this month, I did drum work for a guy who called back and said that a hit on one particular beat was too loud in the entire song. Fortunately, I had grabbed for Cubase when doing this and I used the ghost-shared part system when constructing these drum parts. One click was all it took to change the problem in the entire piece. Bounce again, and I was finished. Had I composed this in DP, I would have had to manually go through the entire song and change all of them (255 or so measures). Do you see what I mean here?

The average sit-at-home guy using these programs for making music in the back bedroom or garage is looking for work-flow when sequencing something like drums and other repeating parts. If I want to change one little thing in a MIDI track, (that repeats) DP makes it a time consuming, labor intensive chore.

Again, I love DP. I love the show-hide tracks, the consolidated window, the plug-in boxes that can be changed to different MIDI channels without having to open a new instance and then end up with 50 window boxes open (ala cubase). And DP just SOUNDS GOOD. It's not flat, it has color and is bright...it's good.

I have put these sequencing programs through the ringer in testing for ease of use. I own Cubase, Logic, Studio One and Digital Performer. I keep coming back to DP, but get frustrated when doing MIDI work because of the things I have mentioned above. If you are going after a new crowd (with your Windows launch), I graciously ask you need to consider some of these suggestions.

Thanks for your time, your great PHONE SUPPORT and Dave Roberts. He's worth his weight in gold !!!

Sam
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My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by Kubi »

Some good suggestions there, and especially #1 (object-oriented MIDI) comes up a lot. I also would love an easy solo button in the Seq Editor.

Quick note, though re. #5, if I understand your post correctly, you can already do that. Just use "Set Chunk start".
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My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by frankf »

5. Modify Conductor Track>Insert Measures
6. Remember Times or Save Selected Time via commands or Selection Info bar/pane mini menus

I personally don't like object oriented composing; it's the main reason I went with DP over Logic when Opcode SVP bit the dust, but I see the request as valid. If the object oriented features were there but added no disruption or clutter to the mostly linear approach of current DP, I'd be fine. Meanwhile clippings work well for this, and I use Copy and Repeat Paste if I need to loop or repeat sections of percussion.
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Dan Worley
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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by Dan Worley »

#4:

Assign "Toggle Solo Mode" to an easy key command. I use "Command -"

From anywhere, hit the key command to go into Solo mode (the "S" will light up in the control panel). Option-click on a track's play button to solo only that track.

Hit the key command again to leave solo mode.
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Kubi
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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by Kubi »

Thanks Dan! That's why I love this place - never stop learning something new and useful....

:D
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Dan Worley
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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by Dan Worley »

Kubi wrote:Thanks Dan! That's why I love this place - never stop learning something new and useful....

:D
My pleasure, Kubi. I most likely learned it here anyway. Just giving it back. Probably 70% of what I know about DP I've leaned from MOTUNATION, and that includes a lot I've learned from you.

:love:
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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by doodles »

#4:

Assign "Toggle Solo Mode" to an easy key command. I use "Command -"

From anywhere, hit the key command to go into Solo mode (the "S" will light up in the control panel). Option-click on a track's play button to solo only that track.

Hit the key command again to leave solo mode.
Hey Dan, yep, but it's a PITA. If I want to hear the track I'm editing, or have highlighted, option clicking after pressing S is an extra step to go though. And I've lost track of the number of times that I've pressed the wrong button with the click and un-play enabled all track except one, just cos of one tiny click trying to do just this in track-laying.This is a nightmare when tracklaying hundreds of parts, and you can't remember which were intentionally disabled beforehand! My stupidity, I know, but only happens cos I'm trying to achieve the solo :oops:
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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by Dan Worley »

doodles wrote:
#4:

Assign "Toggle Solo Mode" to an easy key command. I use "Command -"

From anywhere, hit the key command to go into Solo mode (the "S" will light up in the control panel). Option-click on a track's play button to solo only that track.

Hit the key command again to leave solo mode.
Hey Dan, yep, but it's a PITA. If I want to hear the track I'm editing, or have highlighted, option clicking after pressing S is an extra step to go though. And I've lost track of the number of times that I've pressed the wrong button with the click and un-play enabled all track except one, just cos of one tiny click trying to do just this in track-laying.This is a nightmare when tracklaying hundreds of parts, and you can't remember which were intentionally disabled beforehand! My stupidity, I know, but only happens cos I'm trying to achieve the solo :oops:
Oh, I've done that too! Ouch! Even with just 40 tracks it hurts. This has caused me to use Revert To Saved quite a few times.

It would be nice if there was a key-click combo that would solo a track without first having to manually go into solo mode.
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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by FMiguelez »

sampolfonz wrote: 1) There really needs to be a system to handle MIDI in parts or regions, allowing master parts or regions. ...
Heck, I'd be happy if we could at least name and color-code regions, and if dragged clips also showed names (as in Stylus dragged clips).
sampolfonz wrote: It takes so much longer to create a MIDI track for drums in DP than it does Cubase. That has been (probably) my biggest disappointment when using DP.
Why does it take longer in DP? Can you provide an example?
sampolfonz wrote: 3) Text line under the Marker part to allow for chord symbols.... ...Now, I write a chart in pencil, and number the measures of that chart with erasable red pen so that I know where I am in the sequence at any given time. IF I could just "chart" the song directly within the sequencer program it would be much, much better.
I don't get it... you can certainly use Chord symbols to create lead sheets in DP :?
sampolfonz wrote: 4) SOLO in the sequence editor.
Simply use an easy key command to invoke it.
sampolfonz wrote:5) Offset the song start. I would like to be able to have measure number -2, -1, 0, in front of the actual measure number one. Just a semantics thing, I guess for me.
You can already do this.
sampolfonz wrote:6) The selection area. Why can't the selection area always stay selected. When bouncing down, I always have to make sure that all my tracks are visible, and that I have turned on the selection area (loop) and that I highlight the area, before bouncing to disk. This seems that it would be better without having to manually select what I want to bounce. It would save a step and would not get in the way of anything.
I think there's an option in the Bouncing dialog box that gives you that option to save or remember the selections.
But I find simply dragging over the top of the TO window much faster and simpler to get all the tracks I need selected
sampolfonz wrote: 7) Pitch Audition. I would like to be able to hear the pitch changes as I am making them while moving the segments up or down.
No! That would drive me insane! I really wouldn't like that at all.


sampolfonz wrote:I love the audio production sound of DP. Thick, bright, solid.
That comes from your mixing abilities, not from DP, I'm afraid.
sampolfonz wrote:DP is flexible, but I think that some things need to be put in place to deal with repeating MIDI and audio other than the LOOPING function. Do you realize how confusing this is? Loops, loops within loops? Master clippings (parts-regions-containers) would be much easier to deal with, then just copy the master to many places, make one change in a master and it reflects throughout the entire sequence.
That sounds like the optional SE's behavior with SBs. I'd love to have that functionality in MIDI too. Not sure why, but it sounds good.
sampolfonz wrote:And DP just SOUNDS GOOD. It's not flat, it has color and is bright...it's good.
I Never noticed that.
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sampolfonz
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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by sampolfonz »

1) When creating MIDI, in DP it is one continuous string of data in the track. In Cubase, Logic and Studio One, the MIDI is boxed into parts (regions). These parts can then be duplicated as "shared," so that when anything is changed in one of them, all of the shared copies change. The parts can be of any length, however I usually make mine in 2 to 4 measure chunks so that I can just use repeating shared copies.

The reason it takes longer to do this in DP, if I create then copy the data, let's say I need to change a hi-hat hit in the pattern. In DP, i would manually have to go in and change every little occurrence of that by hand. If I did that same thing in any of the other programs, I just go to one of the shared parts and change it one time, and it automatically changes in all of the other parts (regions) that are copied from that original.

I want a text line for chord charting in the SEQUENCE editor. I understand chord symbols can be put into the notation editor, but I play by Nashville Number System (1, 4, 5, 6m, 2m, 3, 3m, etc) and it would be great to be able to have my chart at the top of my arrangement in the sequence editor.

Have you ever used Melodyne for pitch correction? It's great.

Also, when I say "solo" a track, I mean, if I have a track selected, I push "S" on the letter keyboard and that track is automatically in SOLO; no extra buttons to push, nothing else but S for solo on, solo off.

My thoughts.....
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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by maakera »

sampolfonz wrote: 4) SOLO in the sequence editor.

I do this: select/highlight the section you want to audition with cross-like tool (it's when you hover mouse over the lower part of the waveform) and press option-space. Also great to solo multiple (adjacent) tracks.


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sampolfonz
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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by sampolfonz »

Andre,

Thanks, I will try that one today. But what about a MIDI track?

Sam
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My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by frankf »

Solo in the Mixer works in the "traditional" way without having to toggle the Solo mode first:
-click the solo button to solo/unsolo
-click on additional solo buttons to add those tracks to solo
-opt-click to solo only that track
-cmd-click to solo all tracks except the track you clicked
-swipe across adjacent tracks to quickly solo them

When working with one track at a time, the Channel Strip functions in the same way, minus the swipes of course.

If you use the mixer or Channel Strip to solo, you avoid the issue of not being in solo mode and hitting opt-play enable button "oh s#%^*" that was mentioned.

MOTU could add a Solo icon to input, rec and play icons in all the edit windows and Track information bar and Inspector

That said, I still use the toggle command for the most part. Old habits die hard.
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Re: My suggestions to the developers to make DP improved

Post by sampolfonz »

Frank,

Thanks for trying to help me. Here's where I am on this.

In the mixer it is simple, press solo on any track, where the track is assigned on output, those also stay on when solo is engaged, so that the complete output chain is followed. Everything is great there.

In the sequence editor, here is what is happening. I option click the play button, and that track goes into solo mode, but mutes the output bus. The Master output is still engaged but the aux that the track I am soloing also kicks into mute.

Then, getting it out of solo, I have to command click the play button, then everything comes back, except the track I command clicked on, so I have to push the play button again to get track back on. This is double the steps to get anything into solo.

What am I missing? In Cubase and Studio One, when I am working on a track, all I have to do is push S on letter keys, then when finished soloing, push S again and it returns to normal. How simple.

Thanks for the help.

Sam
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