Left, Right, Even, Odd… Track/Channel conventions

[Shooshie]

I can't remember the first time I configured a stereo audio system, therefore I can't remember when or why I first began a system for "handedness" in stereo tracks. It's always been channel 1 is left and channel 2 is right, so left channels are always odd and right channels are always even. Colors were never an issue, as tt seems that all things American follow the "red-right-returning" rule that we find in our waterways (buoys and boat running lights), airports and planes, and just about everything else. (I've always wondered if British standards are any different, since they drive on the left side of the road.) But when it comes to mapping channels to tracks to stereo outputs, amps, and speakers, it's always just been instinctive for me. I never actually have seen it spelled out on paper, AFAIK. As far as I can remember, every studio I've been in has done it that way.

Does anyone do it otherwise? Is odd-left, even-right a universal standard?

Then there is the piano. I have always micced pianos from the point of view of the performer, such that the bass is on the left and the treble on the right. Sometimes I narrow it to the point that it's hard to tell, but if I'm miccing a piano for stereo output, channel 1 is going to be for the bass clef, and channel 2 for the treble. However, many piano VI's have the ability to reverse that for the audience perspective. I've been to dozens if not hundreds of chamber music concerts with piano, and even sitting close up I rarely perceive the piano in "stereo" except in the general room sense. So, my perception of piano is primarily as a player, for whom the bass is left-hand and the treble is right-hand. Does anyone arrange it otherwise? If so, why?

I often use the Mid-Side missing technique with a cardioid and a figure-8 mic arranged in the same vertical plane. Is there a standard for which mic is going to be on the even channel, and which on the odd? In this case, neither mic is specifically left or right, but when combined and decoded they recreate the stereo field. My standard is cardioid-left (odd) and ∞-right (even). Is that the universal standard for M/S mics? I think that's the default for the decoders I have: MOTU and Waves.

I mic orchestras from the conductor's point of view. Violins on the left, cellos and bass on the right, and violas in the middle. Again, is that a universal absolute? Does anyone do it otherwise?

Is there a left-right, odd-even convention for miccing drum sets? Percussion?

It's interesting that for most of the above the convention for me is just to follow instinct. But when I began actually looking for some documentation as to the standard practice, I didn't find much beyond "everyone knows channel 1 is Left…" Do they?

And now for the final kicker: what happens when you map stereo onto 5.1 surround? This is one area in which I have next to no experience. I've set up a few mixes in DP just to hear them, but I did not really know what I was doing. Any odd/even convention there? I'm assuming there has to be, and that everyone has to follow the same diagrams or it won't work.

Sometimes what we take for granted isn't so easy to define and document. We just assume everyone does it that way, but do they? Do all of you?

Curiouser and curiouser…
Shooshie

[Dan Worley]

Same, same.

My preference is to pan drums to the audience's perspective (hi-hat right, floor tom left), but if another instrument just naturally sits on the right but shouldn't be paired with the hi-hat, I'll change the drum's panning to the drummer's perspective, which is more common.

Pianos recorded and mixed in stereo sound strange to me if they're not panned to the player's perspective, but they also sound strange if that panning is too drastic. I don't consider there to be an audience stereo perspective of a piano (as far as key panning goes). I would say the audience perspective of a piano is mono.

Anything goes and there are no rules, but certain personal spacial aesthetics and taste do guide me. I really love stereo.

[mikehalloran]

Although I used to mess around with pianos and play organ now and then, I never considered myself a keyboardist. or that reason, I have always recorded from the audience perspective. My piano tracks are rarely mono - but they may as well be. Neither do I split a Leslie hard L/R.

When you mentioned Red for right, my instinct was Red = hot with white or green being ground - and the major exception: JBL Professional raw speakers were white = hot and red = ground (lots of out of polarity cabinets assembled by those who didn't know that).

[Frodo]

Does anyone do it otherwise? Is odd-left, even-right a universal standard?

I've always done L=odd, R=even. My reasons have nothing to do with "the" standard. It was "a" standard at the time I started dealing with consoles and they way they were wired. Subsequently, it all transferred to DAW work and I found no reason nor occasion to depart from it.

Then there is the piano. I have always micced pianos from the point of view of the performer, such that the bass is on the left and the treble on the right. Sometimes I narrow it to the point that it's hard to tell, but if I'm miccing a piano for stereo output, channel 1 is going to be for the bass clef, and channel 2 for the treble. However, many piano VI's have the ability to reverse that for the audience perspective. I've been to dozens if not hundreds of chamber music concerts with piano, and even sitting close up I rarely perceive the piano in "stereo" except in the general room sense. So, my perception of piano is primarily as a player, for whom the bass is left-hand and the treble is right-hand. Does anyone arrange it otherwise? If so, why?

I personally prefer the listener's perspective, and that's coming from a pianist who spends most of his time dealing with the piano from the performer's perspective. Near or far, I've always felt that the (grand) piano sounded best from the crook (the curve where most singers like to stand) to the opposite end of the keyboard--- to various vantage points from some distance away, depending upon the recording. VIs have offered the wide L/R pan sample sets as an option, but I find it unnatural in that it just feels differently listening to a recording than it does when I'm actually playing a grand piano. I never perceive the piano as being panned so widely. I've used the performers perspective numerous times, but it just "feels" better to me to pull in the extremities where the panning just feels unmusical and impractical in a mix.

I often use the Mid-Side missing technique with a cardioid and a figure-8 mic arranged in the same vertical plane. Is there a standard for which mic is going to be on the even channel, and which on the odd? In this case, neither mic is specifically left or right, but when combined and decoded they recreate the stereo field. My standard is cardioid-left (odd) and ∞-right (even). Is that the universal standard for M/S mics? I think that's the default for the decoders I have: MOTU and Waves.

Delicious. Don't go changing-- unless there's a lot of money involved.

I mic orchestras from the conductor's point of view. Violins on the left, cellos and bass on the right, and violas in the middle. Again, is that a universal absolute? Does anyone do it otherwise?

There's only one person who experiences an orchestra from the conductor's perspective, and that is the conductor. While it's a wonderful listening experience, I'm not convinced that it's the most natural. Surround recordings are different and fascinating for the way they *can* imitate reality. But my favorite orchestral recordings are no so widely panned. Stereo brings a certain sobriety to "the illusion of reality".

It's one thing to get the violins, violas, and cellos panned across a stereo mix. But to have the contrabasses shoved off to the right side doesn't always work. It can throw off a mix under certain circumstances to have the low end so directly off-center. If the track includes only a string section, it could be just fine.

Panning is one thing, but a real string section is not "exactly" panned left-to-right, top-to-bottom. Often the contrabasses are *behind* the violas and cellos. It takes something akin to Altiverb to accurately place the ambience of the contrabasses so that the listener does not perceive them as being so radically panned to the right. Go with a different seating, as is often the case with film studios or theater pits or various different European traditions-- and translating the aural perception to stereo can have different impacts on what "ought to be".

Is there a left-right, odd-even convention for miccing drum sets? Percussion?

It's whatever works, mostly. The one thing to avoid is having an imbalance of "energy" on one side or the other. If you have a high-hat going at 16th notes on one side, you probably don't want maracas or a tambourine shaking 16th notes in the same region. Splitting them up L/R can be quite effective. The rule is, though, there are no rules. Common sense generally works better, but common sense is not all that common. (~Voltair)

It's interesting that for most of the above the convention for me is just to follow instinct.

Duh? Instinct is your best friend. You, of all people, should know that.

But when I began actually looking for some documentation as to the standard practice...

Standard.

And now for the final kicker: what happens when you map stereo onto 5.1 surround? This is one area in which I have next to no experience.

Surround needs special attention. Flinging stereo to 5:1 (and beyond) doesn't always work wholesale. The most critical part of assessing surround mixes is to have a surround speaker system on which to create and test one's mixes. My most trusted advisors will go so far as to suggest that a surround room is acoustically treated differently than a stereo room-- to the extent that a room might not be custom designed for both purposes. (You just can't toss a sub-woofer any old where.)

Sometimes what we take for granted isn't so easy to define and document. We just assume everyone does it that way, but do they? Do all of you?

I gather that "all of us" do things somewhat differently according to what we've come to understand and feel comfortable with. Perhaps what we *really* want to know are the ways in which we do things similarly?

[Guitar Gaz]

In the studio I worked at as an engineer we followed the conventions of the day - piano and orchestra as per Shooshie (piano bass left, orchestra strings from bass on the right through cellos,violas, and violins spread across and spectrum with lead violins on the left)and with drums the convention of hi hat on the left, snare and kick middle, crash left of centre, ride right of centre, and toms spread from top tom left through to floor tom right. So pretty much as if you were playing the drums or piano, but watching an orchestra - I guess a bit of a fault in the logic there but that was the convention. But I was never a fan of the "standard" orchestra layout in a stereo mix and for many years harboured a desire to mix classical music in a more modern context than the often poorly recorded and muffled sound of some recordings. However, I agree that the string bass on the right does not sound balanced to my ears and would more normally be in the middle in a pop/rock context. So it depends on the piece of music really. But I am stuck in my ways with drums I am afraid - hi-hat anywhere but left does not sound right to me .

[Shooshie]

Geez! This thread just got 200% more interesting. Thanks for chiming in, guys. Now it feels more complete and serious. In fact… with the addition of your voices, it now follows Standard Forum Protocol.

Seriously, thanks for responding. It could be considered a trivial subject, but it's those little things we take for granted, because we always just did it that way, that really could use some discussion to see how widespread in agreement we are, and to figure out if there is any real reason to do it that way other than "just because."

Shooshie

[mikehalloran]

As a retired contrabassist, I can tell you that, though we are sometimes placed hard left on stage (stage left), more often we are placed behind the violas and celli to the left of center.

Interestingly, most opera orchestras, including San Francisco, put us to the hard right. I have rarely sat left in the pit. When I conducted opera, I let the orchestra set up as they will and nearly always, it was strings right, winds and percussion left with the harp(s) in front of the basses. Again, I am referring to stage, not conductor/audience r/L.

Most recordings I have done put us closer to center in the back. The few Hollywood sessions I did, I wasn't playing bass so I never really paid attention to that.

In the 1970s- early 80s, there was a brief trend among younger conductors to place us dead center in the back row against the shell or pit wall (if deep enough) for both symphony and opera. I thought it sounded pretty good but it's been a long time since I have seen that live.