What do you think of Big Fish Audio's Big Bad Horns?

Dan Worley · Post by **Dan Worley** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:57 pm

I need a horn library for better mockups. Simple arrangements. James Brown, Tower of Power type stuff.

Any opinions on Big Fish Audio's Big Bad Horns? I've checked it out online, but I was hoping to hear opinions from people who use it.

Thanks

zed · Post by **zed** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:11 pm

I don't have Big Bad Horns, but since it is just a loop library I would say you would be better looking into something like this:

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/pro ... media.html
(watch "Introducing Brass" video and check out some of the audio demos further down on the page).

Then you are not stuck with someone elses horn lines but can create and play your own custom parts.

But then again, if you have the budget, it doesn't hurt to have a library of stuff that is in the vein of what you are going for. BBH might be a good loop library to add to your collection.

Dan Worley · Post by **Dan Worley** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:18 pm

Thanks, Zed. That looks cool, and I'm sure others will be interested in it, but it would be wasted on me. I just mix this stuff. I don't know that first thing about putting brass sounds together. I'd be lost. I just need something simple with better, more realistic and fitting brass sounds than what I'm using now. It's mostly for my own sanity as I mix these mockups to send to everyone. It's not my project, but I think the plan is for the horn parts to be replaced by real players later. It's just a matter of getting everyone in one spot to do that.

Thanks again.

zed · Post by **zed** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:45 pm

You just have to consider how much effort or difficulty would be involved in fitting their pre-recorded brass parts into your song. If you are building your songs around the brass parts then it will be pretty easy and probably a great way to go. But if you are trying to fit the brass parts into an already existing song, it may be challenging to make it work. I find it difficult enough trying to try to tame drum loops to properly fit into an existing song when I am trying to incorporate the live sound of a groove into my song.

Did you download the free loops on the Big Fish Audio page to see how they might work?

The product I suggested isn't difficult to use by any means--you simply load a preset and then play the horn parts. It is just more versatile than simpler horn instruments in that you can build horn sections or just modify the section presets to your liking (from what I understand). But I suppose you may be looking to be inspired by the brass section loops.

I'll close by saying that Big Fish Audio are great. The products they carry are usually great and they have very good customer service if there are any problems or dissatisfaction. You have to phone them during business hours if you want to pay using PayPal, however.

Dan Worley · Post by **Dan Worley** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:21 am

Zed, you're absolutely right! Thanks for setting me straight and keeping me from making that mistake.

I ended up buying WIVI Band for $129. It's downloading now. It's not exactly the "funk" I was hoping for, but I heard a few examples that led me to believe I can make it work. Plus, I trust and enjoy Wallander and I will undoubtedly have other uses for it.

I very much appreciate your guidance. I'm so used to recording and mixing real instruments. This virtual world can be confusing and intimidating to me.

Thanks again.

zedboy · Post by **zedboy** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:26 am

I'm a little late but I've been using First Call Horns for years and it's pretty simple and effective.

malditoyanki · Post by **malditoyanki** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:30 am

I got that library 3 years ago. I was pleasantly surprised overall. Big band is pretty much the most idiomatic style there is on planet earth so don't expect miracles.

Dan Worley · Post by **Dan Worley** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:04 am

Hmm. The player in WIVI Band is extremely limited and it's a pain (for me) to get a section together that sounds believable. I need a pre-built section by someone who understands horns. It's also a pain to work with the WIVI Band player in DP with a Magic Trackpad. Ugh!

The sounds are nice, but they don't get me where I want to be for this style. No doubt someone who knows what they're doing could pull it off, probably very easily. As much as I love horns, I know absolutely nothing about them. I just know what does and doesn't sound good in a mix.

I'm bummed out. I hate to be critical, and maybe I'm just being cranky, but this player is such a toy and so limited that I don't feel it's worth the $129 I spent for it.

The search continues, now with limited funds.

zed · Post by **zed** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:03 pm

Dan Worley wrote:I'm bummed out. I hate to be critical, and maybe I'm just being cranky, but this player is such a toy and so limited that I don't feel it's worth the $129 I spent for it.

As I mentioned previously, Big Fish Audio customer service is great. If you are genuinely dissatisfied with the product you purchased, it is possible that the money you spent could be credited towards your purchase of another product... perhaps the loop library you were looking at initially.

Another (more expensive) possibility that contains Virtual instruments and thousands of solo/section riffs that you can use with those virtual instruments is MOJO: Horn Section: http://www.bigfishaudio.com/detail.html?1205

zed · Post by **zed** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:11 pm

Pretty cool, though, how you can play WIVI Band using your iPhone as a breath controller!

http://www.wallanderinstruments.com/wiviband/

Dan Worley · Post by **Dan Worley** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:27 pm

zed wrote:
Dan Worley wrote:I'm bummed out. I hate to be critical, and maybe I'm just being cranky, but this player is such a toy and so limited that I don't feel it's worth the $129 I spent for it.
As I mentioned previously, Big Fish Audio customer service is great. If you are genuinely dissatisfied with the product you purchased, it is possible that the money you spent could be credited towards your purchase of another product... perhaps the loop library you were looking at initially.

Another (more expensive) possibility that contains Virtual instruments and thousands of solo/section riffs that you can use with those virtual instruments is MOJO: Horn Section: http://www.bigfishaudio.com/detail.html?1205

I didn't buy anything from Big Fish yet. It's Wallander WIVI Band I was talking about, and not the mobile version.

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:02 pm

IMO most, if not all of these horn libraries are pretty bad without tweaking beyond my abilities as well.
Last December I bought Broadway Lites hoping for a easy solution for horn section parts and for me has been a waste of time and money even with the sale price($199) I find it totally unusable.
Years ago I got a sample library of funk horn sections that I still love,I've been contemplating importing to Kontakt and reusing as I still think a sampled horn section still sounds better than these newer libraries with individual sampled horns sound and all of the time and work it would take to massage them to sound good as a section.
I'm a bit overwhelmed at the work involved in either case to get nice sounding horns in a MIDI environment,I think it's as difficult as
MIDI based guitar or actually harder.
The company that really nails this and puts together a horn section VI will sound good & be easy to use would make a killing.
A few months ago Spectrasonics had a survey of users asking what kind of new library we'd like to see brought to the market.
Horns or Guitar based VI's were my suggestions and they are one of a few companies that I think could pull this off.
Nothing in the market I've seen can do this well without lots of work
involving arranging and cc skills beyond my abilities and level of patience.

Dan Worley · Post by **Dan Worley** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:22 pm

kgdrum wrote:involving arranging and cc skills beyond my abilities and level of patience.

Yes, this is where I'm at too, but I don't even know which horn should play which note in a simple stab, that's how stupid I am.

I've kind of given up here. Since these are just mockups, they don't need to be spot on. It just trips me up and slows me down when things don't sound right. I ended up using the horns in GPO and adding a lot of reverb. I find it odd that that works, but it does work well enough to get the idea across.

Guys, some of the products you've suggested are either too old or too expensive for me, or their authorization scheme is too weird for me to deal with. But I appreciate the help.

Thanks.

trevorallan · Post by **trevorallan** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:55 am

With reference to the Arturia BRASS program linked earlier in this thread, my experience has been very mixed. I won a copy of it when it was first released (through Sound on Sound magazine). It needed a (then) very big and expensive CPU to even run. So it sat on my shelf for 18 months or so. When I got a MacBook Pro, I took it up again, with little more satisfaction. Then I upgraded (free) to V.2.

Arturia's support was hopeless, in my experience. This assessment is also consistent with the various frustrated threads on their users' forum at that time.

I did get it working, and found the sounds and control features adequate to my needs, which consisted of demos (maybe the kind of things that Dan W. is doing) and backing tracks for live theatre shows in a 1000 seater auditorium.

A BIG 'HOWEVER'! It was the cause of frequent crashes of DP, both when in use and even when only loaded and available as a VI but not actually playing. And when it was working at its best it still behaved in a very eccentric manner, often randomly refusing to play notes, etc, and still causing crashes.

So while usable tracks are possible in the end (maybe - assessment of emulations is very subjective), it just wasn't worth the time it wasted. I haven't got it installed any more - the last time I used it was December 2009.

And there have been no updates released to correct these issues, as far as I know.

My two cents worth...

zed · Post by **zed** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:22 pm

trevorallan wrote:A BIG 'HOWEVER'! [Arturia BRASS] was the cause of frequent crashes of DP, both when in use and even when only loaded and available as a VI but not actually playing. And when it was working at its best it still behaved in a very eccentric manner, often randomly refusing to play notes, etc, and still causing crashes.

So while usable tracks are possible in the end (maybe - assessment of emulations is very subjective), it just wasn't worth the time it wasted. I haven't got it installed any more - the last time I used it was December 2009.

And there have been no updates released to correct these issues, as far as I know.

My two cents worth...

Thanks for that. That is good information. I have been meaning to pick up this product when the time was right, but now I will seriously consider this advice before I spend the money. Arturia would have gotten some of my money a long time ago with those ongoing 3 for 1 specials if only they had a wider range of products. There is this brass product and then a tonne of synth emulations. I have no desire for more synth emulations, since I have a tonne already and rarely 'em.

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