DP closes itself while recording a concert: everything LOST!

cioto · Post by **cioto** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:53 am

Hi everybody,
on saturday my DP 7.24 crashed during a live concert. Mac OS just told me that DP closed unexpectly, the program just closed itself without apparent reason (I was 2 meters away from the system).
It happened after 30 minutes of concert (recording 44.1 at 16 bit, 18 tracks).
I have been looking for the audio files but couldn't find any, the audio folders where empty, so I realized I totally lost the recording.
This is the second time it happens to me (happened again only one week ago), and have never happened in years.
I really would like to understand WHY this happened, since I have some concerts to record in the next days.

My setup is the following:

- MacBook Pro 17" 2.2 core i7 8GB RAM;
- I was recording on an external eSATA hi-performance hard drive (OWC Mercury Elite Pro), 1000 GB, 250 GB free;
- sound card: RME Fireface 800 connected with firewire 800 cable;
- latest version of Snow Leopard;
- some additional plugins (virtual instruments) loaded by DP at the opening, but NONE of them loaded in the project. The project was plugin free;
- buffer was set at 128 and I selected "blend" at the audio monitoring options, just to listen to the tracks.

The stress on CPU and hard drive were minimum, the CPU meter was slightly upon zero.
The most important thing I noticed was that after 20/25 minutes of recording (so, few minutes before the crash), DP started behaving bad: slow graphic update on audio meters and on the counter, something like it was losing graphic frames (like a game too heavy to run on an old machine).
Maybe something related to the graphic card?
Is there any log I could see or send to MOTU to have some help?
Thank you so much.
Rob

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:01 am

I think you can save while the recording is in progress but I could be mistaken. Sounds like a drive access problem I remember having years ago but can't remember how it was solved. The small card slot on laptops I know is faster than built in FW or USB so I would try SATA expander card, then run 24 tracks live before a gig and see how long it runs. Maybe borrow one at a third party mac shop for the test.

Certainly a newer laptop would help. I took my Map Pro laptop with 2 Fireface IO's and recorded 20 live tracks for about 4 hours, start and stop, in Hollywood once and had no issues whatsoever.

Those running live laptops should be proactive and test everything before a gig always. Make sure your feeding a +4 tone into the IOs inputs while running the test.

Best of luck.

jlaudon · Post by **jlaudon** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:53 am

It seems like your laptop is plenty fast enough (I have the same one, 15" version). I would try to free up more hard drive space (25% free on a big hard drive is cutting it close, in my experience).

I would check to make sure all energy save functions on the Macbook Pro are set to never, and also turn off any internet connection/wifi/airport, etc. Also, I have had Software Update start in the middle of some recording I was doing, and that messed up DP that time (I think you can disable it, or set it to manual).

I would also repair permissions, do a maintenance on the hard drive, and run DP as a trial for a few hours to see if it acts up again.

Hope this might help

.

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:44 am

Those are all good suggestions jlaudon. One other thought.

Plugging a hard drive and FW IO on the usb/FW buss has caused conflicts in the past because the two ports share the same feed to the buss. Also, select fireface settings and make sure you only have the necessary bandwidth items selected. This will save headroom possibly for your drive.

The accessory port is direct to the buss and like a plug in card to a desktop. FW expansion cards as well would get you off the USB/FW buss. Think about it.

jlaudon · Post by **jlaudon** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:48 am

One more thing - set a higher buffer if possible (at least 256, preferably 512 or 1024).

FMiguelez · Post by **FMiguelez** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:08 am

jlaudon wrote:One more thing - set a higher buffer if possible (at least 256, preferably 512 or 1024).

+1

Also, your OWC enclosure should have an eSATA connection. You should definitely use that one! [edit- Never mind. I see you were using it now].

Aren't the lost recorded audio files in the trash can? Have you made a search?

FutureLegends · Post by **FutureLegends** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:49 am

Only times this has happened to me are when the disk hasn't enought space.
Make sure DP isn't set to record on another drive.

First time I tried to reply, tapatalk quit unexpectedly. Maybe you should call an exorcist?

NazRat · Post by **NazRat** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:49 am

Cioto - I was in your lovely city last summer - took the ferry over from Dubrovnik. The Adriatic coast deserves more attention.

Is the audio drive excluded/private in Spotlight? Is Time machine active? Also, why not 24 bit? That's what's coming over the wire - maybe some on the fly conversion/analysis issues? When the GUI slows up, usually something's going on in the background. Any crash reports? And, +1 for upping the buffer.

bad andy · Post by **bad andy** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:44 am

You can view a log in the CONSOLE program. Might be difficult to decipher but could possibly point in the direction of what was going on at the time

cioto · Post by **cioto** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:41 pm

Thank you all for your help!
I alrealdy run my HD in eSATA, not firewire/USB.
I have right now deleted some old big files on the HD so I have more free space.
I believe there is something wrong at software level, because I have used this system for a lot of sessions for hours and have never had a single problem.
I had a small buffer because I was monitoring real time the tracks, but I can set it higher and listen to the inputs with fireface total mix (it isn't as easy as DP...).

I didn't check for files in the trash. But I just wonder: where does DP records temporary audio while recording? I have looked almost everywhere!

NazRat, tell me if you come back here!!

The audio drive is NOT excluded in spotlight! Do you think this could be a possible problem?
Time machine is off.
Why not 24 bits? You are right... I have been recording for years, and years ago recording at 24 bit was a "luxury", and I used to believe it is 50% more stressful on system and HD, isn't it?

And at last here is what I see in the console if I filter for digital performer:

http://imageshack.us/f/189/dplog.jpg/

There are some strange errors...

Thanks for your help!!

Pappy725 · Post by **Pappy725** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:04 pm

My MacBook Pro and DP have done this to me a couple of times now. Similar sessions, live gig, 18 tracks... It should have come up with a message about recovering the files. Mine were always in the trash. Drug them out to the desktop, restarted DP and recorded the second set. Definitely check out the crash logs, it should give you some idea of where to start. Mine is a problem looking for a MIDI input that isn't there, I need to sort that out (which is probably easy to do in AudioMidi Setup) before the next gig.

HTH,

Pappy

NazRat · Post by **NazRat** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:27 pm

I have always excluded the audio drive from Spotlight - I know it causes issues with long recording in Pro Tools so I'm just extending that to other audio apps. As for 24 bit, it takes 50% more storage, but I don't believe it stresses anything unless you're approaching the transfer/buss limits and 18 tracks probably wouldn't get anywhere close unless you were chaining devices. I don't know the inner workings of DP and maybe someone else can help, but doesn't reducing 24 bit to 16 bit involve some overhead for conversion and dithering? Just speculating on this last one - I always use 24 bit. Increasing the buffer and using hardware monitoring will most likely be the biggest help. Good luck with finding the issue.

NazRat · Post by **NazRat** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:39 pm

Pappy725 wrote:My MacBook Pro and DP have done this to me a couple of times now. Similar sessions, live gig, 18 tracks... It should have come up with a message about recovering the files. Mine were always in the trash. Drug them out to the desktop, restarted DP and recorded the second set. Definitely check out the crash logs, it should give you some idea of where to start. Mine is a problem looking for a MIDI input that isn't there, I need to sort that out (which is probably easy to do in AudioMidi Setup) before the next gig.

HTH,

Pappy

Since you're using a MOTU interface, you might want to give AudioDesk a try. It's lean and efficient and definitely no MIDI issues. I've done 18 tracks on a Powerbook G4 with and external firewire drive several times without any glitches. Afterwards, DP opens the sessions with no problem for editing and mixing.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:50 am

I had DP quit lately, and the crash log showed something 'window server' related...
I had a plug running and it's gui was in the back...
As far as I understand your crashlog shows something 'window' related too,
You said you had loaded some plugs at opening ?

Me thinks DP has something - graphics - related -
Maybe some of you remember the times when DP crashes were graphics related... DP 3 ?
maybe Motu couldn't catch everything when they fixed it ?

Buffers at 512 or more, I agree

Best

Klaus

cioto · Post by **cioto** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:44 am

Pappy725 wrote:.. It should have come up with a message about recovering the files. Mine were always in the trash. Drug them out to the desktop, restarted DP and recorded the second set.
Pappy

You mean all the audio recorded up to that point was available in the trash and you recovered it this way?

Klaus wrote: As far as I understand your crashlog shows something 'window' related too,
You said you had loaded some plugs at opening ?
Klaus

DP loaded all the plugs when I opened it, but the project was plugs-free, no plugins loaded.
Would it be better if I tell DP to load zero plugins at start up?

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