DP 4.6 or Logic Pro 7

[artfarm1]

I went to Logic when OSX first came out, because they had something ready to work with it, and I needed a better computer at the time from what I had been doing with Performer for about 8 years.

But, Logic is a 'love-hate' relationship. I ended up almost hating music becuase of Logic! (I'm not 'loops-only' composer.)

Bottom line for me to switch back to DP was the audio quality which is superior (sure, debatable, but still superior) and the work flow in DP which is far more 'musical' to my tastes. After three years of 'A-B'ing' music done in Logic and DP, I think DP is better. There's more space for the digitalized overtones....I don't know, it just sounds more real and life-like, and all my collaborators have agreed.

You can mix and master a project in DP! The MasterWorks plugs are great....use a couple of Waves plugs on some channels if you like, but you CAN do a great project in DP!

If you want to spend your time making music, get DP and some other software instruments of choice....if you like to fiddle around, and you want to sound like everyone else and use AppleLoops or something, then get Logic.....

[emulatorloo]

Hello ytomk -- just making sure you are aware that MOTU has a competitive upgrade for users of Logic etc. . .in the US it runs around 329.00 vs 499.00 for the full version. I would expect you would see similar savings in the UK (which is where I think you are)

[ytomk]

Hello ytomk -- just making sure you are aware that MOTU has a competitive upgrade for users of Logic etc. . .in the US it runs around 329.00 vs 499.00 for the full version. I would expect you would see similar savings in the UK (which is where I think you are)

Yeah thanks man. The competitive upgrade works out at about £249 compared with £279 for a Logic upgrade, so it's not that much of a difference.

[daveyboy]

I made this list and posted it on osxaudio:

I'm a DP guy but have been spending considerable time learning Logic as of late. I'm getting into it and will continue to try to master it. Some big differences for me in terms of everyday workflow stuff that Logic doesn't have that I think you'll love are:

1. multiple takes per track. If I do 10 vocal takes it's way easier for me to do a comp.
2. superior automation abilities which include snapshot mode, being able to trim using trim fader mode or by lowering the data via inputing the change via a numerical number (for all tracks at once by the way)
3. multiple mixes. do one mix, do a music only mix, etc, do 20 different mixes all within one file. I don't think PT can do this one.
4. multiple sequences. once again do a version of the song, make a new sequence, experiment, copy and paste between the 2, all within the same song. scoring a tv show using different sequences for different scenes.
5. not having to switch to a different tool just to do a cross fade (which are totally configurable by the way) or selection.
6. Way easier audio editing via the sequence editor. works like protools where you can hide/show whatever tracks your editing even if they're not together on the arrange window. to time stretch an audio file you just grab and stretch, all visual.
7. You can bounce tracks and apply the effects/automation and have it show up in the arrange/track window automatically (can you do this in logic without dragging from the audio window?)
8. apply plugins destructively to whatever section of audio you want without doing a bounce to disk (once again like pro tools)
9. better integration of 3rd party multitimbral vi's like kontakt or stylus rmx. In logic if you move a fader on let's say one MIDI track of a kontakt instrument it actually lowers the volume on the master fader of kontakt. There is a work around which I researched which deals with making a transformer object in the environment which changes the MIDI data being sent and then reassigning a different MIDI controller to the instrument in kontakt. Takes some time and obviously an obscure work around (but it works). In DP it just works.
10. although I think the freeze function in logic smokes DP in terms of ease of use and speed I like the fact that in DP I can then edit the frozen audio if I want.
11. Pitch automation in DP is brilliant and is used on every singer (no matter how good).

That being said, I'm actually enjoying learning something new. I find DP to be much more professional for my studio. It takes me much longer to do simple operations in Logic than it does in DP. Plus, not having the multiple takes or having trim/snapshot functions on the mixer makes mixing much harder. I'll continue to enjoy it for use with myself though. I really, really like Logic's included plugs and VI's. You'll be buying a reverb at least for DP.

[bradswan]

DP's plugs, except for the MWEQ are it's weakest feature, except for maybe the ongoing MIDI instability and bizarreness. Having said that what it has to offer is still truly great. I thought that Logic was on it's way to being the premier DAW, but lately DP has re-asserted itself as an excellent vehicle for music production.

peace

[schwarz]

I changed from Logic 6 to DP about 9 months ago. My opinion: Logic is a great tool for composers, DP is a great tool for engineers. (Of course, DP can be used for composing and vice versa.) If you are recording and editing DP will do a better job.
Personally, I don't miss the Logic Plugs.

It took me a very long time (still takes) to get a workflow again, it's very hard learning: new shortcuts, which tools for which purpose, etc... that's not learned by reading the manual (which is better than Logic's).

I'm very happy, having done the change to DP.

PS.: I'm missing: the screensets, the float windows.

[Archer]

PS.: I'm missing: the screensets

Take a look at pg. 127, very useful

[Archer]

Comparing eVerb against Space Designer is like comparing Platinum Verb and co. against SD. No match.

Compare eVerb agains PVerb and I'll say that eVerb can produce useable results, pretty much as PVerb can.

Competitors to SD are Audio Ease Altiverb and Waves IR. To me, Altiverb is much better than SD. Sonically, I find IR better than the others. Altiverb in contrast has some more features, eg. snapshots.

[amplidood]

After having used all the DAW's for many years (mainly DP), I've recently gone over to really mastering Logic, for several reasons. Everyone has already talked about DP's amazing features, which I agree are very powerful. A well thought out interface. Control over just about everything you want control of. I miss many of the editing and tweaking features of DP when I'm in Logic, but I don't miss the sound. It's so much easier for me to get a fat sound from Logic than from DP. I just finished mixing a re-mix (haaa) in Logic and the producer was loading up tracks for his next project someone had given him in a Logic session. I needed my key back, so he omf'd the files over to DP. Loaded it up, matched the levels, and hit play...then proceeded to go bug-eyed. He could not believe how different it sounded. He did NOT want to continue putting the track together in DP, but had no choice until he bought a copy of Logic for himself.

I would NEVER set someone up with Logic for a live situation, DP is incredible for that application. But for combining everything else, I won't be going to DP first anymore. Maybe it's time for them to revisit the audio engine? Because I already miss the tracks overview

[sdfalk]

At the end of the day, use what makes you happy.
I can get a sound out of DP that I think is the equal of Logic,
Nuendo, or anything else.
I use Logic express for some things, and it has its advantages
but so does DP.
I don't use the stock plugins as much anymore (in DP) but that doesn't mean
they can't be useful.
I've said it before, If someone can't get anything useful from the stock Motu plugs,
they must not be trying to hard.

[ytomk]

Comparing eVerb against Space Designer is like comparing Platinum Verb and co. against SD. No match.

Compare eVerb agains PVerb and I'll say that eVerb can produce useable results, pretty much as PVerb can.

Competitors to SD are Audio Ease Altiverb and Waves IR. To me, Altiverb is much better than SD. Sonically, I find IR better than the others. Altiverb in contrast has some more features, eg. snapshots.

I quite like the look of the waves one. Obviously the price vs. SD is a downside.
Has anyone tried the IR-L? From what waves say it's a cut down version of IR-1 but how does it sound in comparasion?

[Archer]

The versions share the same soundlibrary, what changes is the amount of controls/parameters you have at hand. The parameters added in IR-1 allow you dial settings that produce results you'd expect from non-convolution based verbs.

[qo]

I quite like the look of the waves one. Obviously the price vs. SD is a downside.
Has anyone tried the IR-L? From what waves say it's a cut down version of IR-1 but how does it sound in comparasion?

The thing about IR-1 (and I have both IR-1 and Altiverb) is that it's a CPU glutton. Altiverb uses Altivec and so uses MUCH less CPU.

I just compared the two to make sure of the difference.

88.2kHz, 256 sample buffer, DP 4.6, Tiger 10.4.2

I removed all tracks from the project. I then added a mono audio track, added a mono->mono instance of the plugin, copied a recorded 6 second soundbite to the track, pressed Play, and reviewed CPU. I repeated until CPU was redlining.

Result:
4 instances of Waves IR-1 v5
11 instances of Altiverb v5

Details:

Waves IR-1

Used Hall1_mog12.wir (this is 8.82 seconds length) and CPU is at about 85% with 4 instances. 1 more instance and we are redlining. I used IR-1's "Full CPU" setting to stay as "apples to apples" as possible.

Altiverb

Loading a similar IR into Altiverb (Church mono to mono Christian Science, 1.992 seconds length) at 4 instances, the CPU was at 25%. At 12 instances, CPU was about 85% when idling, but redlined when we hit Play. At 11 instances, CPU remained around 85% during Play.

[ytomk]

The only problem is that either IR-1 with DP works out at double, yes double the price of Logic and DP and altiverb works out at nearly 3x the price.

I'm starting to think that my descision may have been made...

[billf]

So what's the general consensus? That DP is great and it's plugins are great but it's reverb is a bit lacking?

I use both DP and Logic. I personally don't care for the stock reverbs in either app. I find myself reaching for third party verbs when using either app.

Now as far as other plugs, DP has some good ones, the MWEQ being a steller plugin. DP also has Melodyne-like pitch correction, which is quickly becoming a must have. As for VI's, in DP you have to go third party and/or MachFive/MX4/SI (which are all very good).

Personally, I find that for mixing and audio editing, DP can't be beat. Logic is great for constructing song structure and that sort of thing, but I hate it for mixing and editing audio.