DP8 announced: 64 bits and available for Windows!

[Prime Mover]

Well, truth be told, I've always felt a little bad about the way Sonar get's treated. It's like it's the bastard child of the DAW world. Honestly, I have fond memories of using Sonar, it's the DAW I started with, and honestly, I thought it was every bit as good as Pro Tools, with some great innovations for it's time. But because it was built out of Cakewalk, a program originally designed to target amateurs, it's always gotten dismissed. Look, it's nowhere near as good as DP, and it probably doesn't even deserve the attention it gets, but people tend to dismiss it for the wrong reasons. There are a few things that I still miss: all mixer tracks have a trim pot, and it creates bezier curves for automation lines, both MIDI and Audio. I wish DP had that

[zed]

Hey folks,

Suggestions have been made in another thread that a 64 bit DP will no longer have the 4GB memory limitation even while running in a 32 bit kernel. This is the first I have heard of this, and I am not sure what to believe.

Not all of you may be following that thread, so here it is:
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 15#p414925

Would love for some more people to chime in with whatever information they may have. Logic and Garageband are both 64 bit, I believe. Has anyone tried running them in a 32 bit kernel and found that they can exceed the 4GB memory limitation?

[toodamnhip]

I POSTED THIS IN A DIFFERENT TOPIC AND REPOSTING HERE:

Okay, I'm sitting in bed in my hotel room about to crash out soon after going to NAMM, hitting the MOTU-Mac Dinner, and chatting with the MOTU guys over the evening. Being on the scene, I can fill in some gaps now and clear up some misunderstandings.

RE WINDOWS:
Mac development is going to continue strongly and will remain a priority. The Windows version is simply a logical step to increase the user base and and it would follow, revenue. Further, without knowing much of the details, it's not diverting resources and energy significantly from Mac development, perhaps because of cross development tools. The apps are IDENTICAL feature for feature. Even more impressive, graphically it's identical as well. Unless you looked at the desktop or maybe the font in the menu bar, you wouldn't know of you're on Mac or Windows. DP 8 will ship with both the Mac and Windows versions. The user can choose which they want to run. Projects that only use the included DP plugs can be opened by either the Mac or Windows versions. Third Party plugs course will cause a problem as there's no AU on Windows obviously.

CUE MIX IPAD SUPPORT
This was indeed shown when I watched the demo. It is not actually a proprietary app, but rather it appears MOTU created their own template for TouchOSC because that's the app I watched Magic Dave use to control CueMix. You can also have multiple iPads control CueMix at once.

SIXTY-FOUR BIT
Self-explanatory.

VIDEO ENGINE REWRITTEN
From what I understand, no reliance on QuickTime anymore, thus the audio from the video window is not handled by the MacOS but piped into DP's audio engine. Video playback is more efficient.

PLUG INS
The guitar stuff is cool, but there's more than that. There's a dynamic EQ and even a de-esser as well as a cool chorus effect and the guitar effects can also be used on other sources.

NEW THEMES
Not a big deal but some of them looked cool.

Finally, I did shoot video of the DP portion of the demo on my iPhone. 23 minutes long. Bad news is it's too big to upload to YouTube from my iPhone. I'm using an iPhone FTP app to compress and upload the video to the MOTUNATION server and then I'll embed the QT movie in this thread and also a new topic. Hopefully all will go smoothly.

Well done on putting a calm, cool understanding based off of FIRST hand chat with the MOTU guys, to create understanding where there could be a lot of over reaction and unnecessary worry.

[zed]

Well done on putting a calm, cool understanding based off of FIRST hand chat with the MOTU guys, to create understanding where there could be a lot of over reaction and unnecessary worry.

The MOTU guys would have done well to immediately dissipate any concerns people might have over the whole 32/64 bit thing, and whether 32 bit plugins are going to present a problem or not, etc. Since they must know this stuff already, the information should be imparted to DP users who may have to either upgrade their computers or pursue the acquisition of 64 bit versions of their plugins... or even to start adjusting their current projects so that 32 bit plugins are being used less, in the even that they may create problems.

Avoiding over reaction and unnecessary worry is a good thing indeed. Let's not be worried, but let's be interested and get our curiosity satisfied, so that we can start heading in the right direction over the next couple of months.

I am on IK Multimedia's case to get 64 bit SampleTank 3 released.

[kgdrum]

UAD2 is a 64bit concern for me.

[Gravity Jim]

UAD2 is a 64bit concern for me.

No concern: UAD already has a 64-bit driver for the UAD-2 cards.

[kgdrum]

If I am understanding correctly, they still have to update the UAD2 card,
itself to 64bit for the card to work in DP8 64bit.
There are 64 bit drivers on many 32bit products we already use.
I was looking on UA's site & forum, UA stated they are working on the 64bit update, aiming for 2012 and it's a free update for all users.

[Gravity Jim]

Oops.... Guess I didn't get that far. I'll have to go check it out.

Well, I don't get it: this is from the UA website:

"Are UAD-2 products compatible with Mac OS X 64-bit kernel mode?

Yes! 64-bit driver support for all UAD-2 devices under Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard and 10.6 Snow Leopard was added in UAD Powered Plug-Ins v5.8.0 (64-bit drivers for UAD-1 are not available for Mac)."

I can't find anything that says they're not. Do you have a URL for that?

[Shooshie]

There are a few things [in Sonar] that I still miss: all mixer tracks have a trim pot, and it creates bezier curves for automation lines, both MIDI and Audio. I wish DP had that

As for those bezier curves… they're in DP, but you have to hold down the R key to use them. (and have the curves selected for the Reshape Tool) You can leave them selected by default.

I've never seen editing tools anywhere that rival those in DP, though I haven't seen the tools in all the apps out there. But short of reading your mind and editing itself, a DAW couldn't have better tools than those in DP. Equal, perhaps, but not better.

Have you checked out the curves in the toolbar?

Shooshie

[FutureLegends]

Hey folks,
Suggestions have been made in another thread that a 64 bit DP will no longer have the 4GB memory limitation even while running in a 32 bit kernel. This is the first I have heard of this, and I am not sure what to believe.

This is from ArsTechnica:

Finally, this is worth repeating: please keep in mind that you do not need to run the 64-bit kernel in order to run 64-bit applications or install more than 4GB of RAM in your Mac. Applications run just fine in 64-bit mode on top of the 32-bit kernel, and even in earlier versions of Mac OS X it's been possible to install and take advantage of much more than 4GB of RAM.

Full article:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/20 ... 10-6.ars/5

What can become a problem is if the drivers for hardware etc become 64bit only. Or if you start using more than 100gb of ram cause the kernel is limited to 4gb in 32bit mode, but 4gb is more than enough for the kernel until you start getting inte extremes that are still a few years away.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

My understand is the 4GB limit in 32 bit is per app. So whilst 64 bit Photoshop may address 12 GB, and Final Cut X another 8GB, a 32 bit DP running on the same machine will still be limited to 4GB even though another 12 GB is available and that limitation extends to VIs hosted in the 32 bit app.

Anyone?

[bayswater]

My understand is the 4GB limit in 32 bit is per app. So whilst 64 bit Photoshop may address 12 GB, and Final Cut X another 8GB, a 32 bit DP running on the same machine will still be limited to 4GB even though another 12 GB is available and that limitation extends to VIs hosted in the 32 bit app.

Anyone?

Agree. As I understand it the limitation is per app.

[grimepoch]

My understand is the 4GB limit in 32 bit is per app. So whilst 64 bit Photoshop may address 12 GB, and Final Cut X another 8GB, a 32 bit DP running on the same machine will still be limited to 4GB even though another 12 GB is available and that limitation extends to VIs hosted in the 32 bit app.

Anyone?

This is correct, as I have 15G in my machine and have used 64-bit and 32-bit apps at the same time and had to check memory. Each process that is 32-bit is limited by 4G individually and 64-bit by the much higher limit, normally, all your RAM. Also, even if you are using shared RAM (common libraries) you are still limited to 4G because of addressing capability. The nice thing about shared libraries is two apps can use the same code. Like the Foundation Classes (CoreAudio).

Also, Snow Leopard defaults to 32-bit kernel but can run 64-bit code. So that is correct. However, that is a completely separate issue than plugins. If DP is in 64-bit mode, then DP would have to include a mechanism like Logic to support 32-bit versions of the code.

[Prime Mover]

Also, Snow Leopard defaults to 32-bit kernel but can run 64-bit code.

My system prefs say otherwise. I've never done anything to switch to 64bit on this computer, and it's currently booting 64bit. It may be computer dependent. This is a brand new (9 month old) MacBook Pro 13".

I've never seen editing tools anywhere that rival those in DP, though I haven't seen the tools in all the apps out there.

Problem is that DPs bezier curve drawing is temporary; afterwards it just translates that to a bunch of straight lines. Sonar actually had permanent bezier handles that you could grab and reshape at will. I disagree strongly that DPs automation editing tools are the best. Yes, you can do anything with DP, but I've always found its editing tools to be a bit on the clunky side, and one of its weak points. Most DAWs and Video Editors are able to use different interpolation methods between nodes, not just linear. DP is still stuck in the world of linear interpolation, and that feels a bit dated. If DPs automation created permanent non-linear nodes, it's translation of manual automation could be a lot more precise with fewer data points, and much more natural to edit. Instead of a gentle S-curve being translated to 8 linear nodes, you would have 2 with bezier handles, and it would much more closely resemble your original fader motion. Trust me, MUCH more efficient, much more precise. As a video editor, I rarely work with linear interpolation anymore, and after working with Premiere and After Effects automation, daily, DPs feels extremely limited.

Look, all in all DP is my favorite DAW, and I've learned how to do anything I want to do in it, but I'm not about to say it's perfect and there aren't things that other programs can do better. I've always felt that there are some things that video editing software has developed that is MUCH more sophisticated than DAWs are doing: java scripting, non-linear interpolation, instant track linking/parenting. These are the norm in video compositors, while only a handful of DAWs cherry-pick these elements. Sonar has non-linear interpolation, while I remember only one other DAW offering java scripting (something I commonly find myself wishing I had in DP).

[grimepoch]

Also, Snow Leopard defaults to 32-bit kernel but can run 64-bit code.

My system prefs say otherwise. I've never done anything to switch to 64bit on this computer, and it's currently booting 64bit. It may be computer dependent. This is a brand new (9 month old) MacBook Pro 13".

Actually, you are correct. On newer models they changed the default. I noticed this with my newer MacBookPro as well as some code I ran didn't work anymore (VPN). That said, I know a lot of music users keep their machines for about 30485 years So with older systems, they still be in 32-bit mode. I have the exact same install on a MacBookPro 2011 and a MacPro 2006 and the MacPro boots to 32-bit.

That said, I DEFINITELY run 64-bit apps on both machines. Specifically, After Effects, and have used up to 12G on some of my more challenging projects.

Kernel mode makes no difference in whether you can run 32 or 64 bit code, which is a good thing!

It seems windows is not the same. If you are in 32-bit mode, it sounds like you cannot run 64-bit apps, but, if you are in 64-bit mode you CAN run 32-bit apps (most of them). The only exception is drivers.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... -questions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;