Which Comes First - Picture or Music?

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:29 pm

It's the godaddy gremlins! I'll have another look in the morning. Thanks for letting me know.

KenNickels · Post by **KenNickels** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:34 pm

This thread didn't get much mileage, but nonetheless I'm posting this anyway because it's an excellent example of how cinema can parlay picture with an established piece of music to make something better than the sum of the parts.

The music is Lascia ch'io pianga from Handel's Rinaldo and the video is from Lars Von Trier's Antichrist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnXlyTYP ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cowtothesky · Post by **cowtothesky** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:49 pm

Here is a good example too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBlYfTbA44&ob=av3e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:51 pm

All I can say is picture arrived this afternoon and the music ain't in sight.

ootini · Post by **ootini** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:59 am

I'm pretty sure Terrence Malick had Hans Zimmer write about 7 or 8 hours of music for The Thin Red Line and had it playing on set while they were shooting to help the actors get the feel for each scene.
And to this day it's one of my favourite films and soundtracks of all time. The "Journey to the line" is just mind blowingly beautiful.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:08 am

Funny thing, in the days of silent films there would (almost) always be music playing on the set. Of course, not necessarily the music that would be played with the picture but it did help the actors get into the script. And yes, there were scripts that would follow (more or less).

ootini · Post by **ootini** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:17 am

I think in a perfect world a composer would write the music based on the script , screenplay and consultation with the director. The director would then play the music on set to which the editor would cut the movie. As the music is so important and emotive in many movies I think hearing the music during shooting benefits the actors greatly.
I think Malick and Kubrick are good examples of directors who move the images around the music.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:27 am

There is no perfect world. Every collaboration (in my experience) is different. It's all about storytelling - essentially all art is.

Often, in dance, the music and dance happen at the exact same time. Not always. In theater, the music almost always follows the production unless its something like Sondheim or a collaborative team in a musical. But film is rarely like that. The music most often follows the picture in my experience - hence the use of "temp" scores which are the bane of my existence sometimes.

But I do feel that the best music is that which stands on its own. This is clearly what Kubrick felt when he used his "temp" Blue Danube for the picture in 2001. Of course the also used the great Ligeti music without compensation. I think he got $250 in a court case (or something like that). Sinful!

KenNickels · Post by **KenNickels** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:54 am

ootini wrote:I think in a perfect world a composer would write the music based on the script , screenplay and consultation with the director. The director would then play the music on set to which the editor would cut the movie. As the music is so important and emotive in many movies I think hearing the music during shooting benefits the actors greatly.
I think Malick and Kubrick are good examples of directors who move the images around the music.

Vivian Kubrik's "The Making of The Shining" shows the actors working with The Rite of Spring being played. Kubrik into the bullhorn: Run Danny run! You're scared!

I like it when someone loves a piece of music so much that they honor it in a different discipline. Maybe that's why I like the New York City Ballet so much. That, and they are probably the only place in the world where you can hear the bulk of Stravinsky's music, not just the usual big three. Balanchine must have loved Stravinsky's music a lot.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:00 pm

As you likely know, Igor's music has a long history with dance. Good for music. Good for dance. Great for culture!

ootini · Post by **ootini** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:52 am

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:But I do feel that the best music is that which stands on its own.

I think two examples of original music written for a film which stand perfectly well on their own. Two of my favourites I should point out, are: Journey To The Line by Zimmer, from the Thin Red Line. And The Grand Finale from Edward Scissorhands by Danny Elfman. They are two of the finest pieces I've ever heard, absolutely incredible. I wish I could put my finger on exactly what it is about them that I love so much.

KenNickels · Post by **KenNickels** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:02 pm

Shot at 1000 FPS. Beautiful film making. Makes me appreciate Wagner a little bit more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM6dYVNN ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ootini · Post by **ootini** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:57 am

That is excellent, might have to watch the film now!

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