Favorite Orchestrators and Orchestrations

[MIDI Life Crisis]

How did all these great composers hear these textures in their head...

That's the gig, isn't it?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

OMG. That orchestration!!!! The brass writing alone bops me in the gizzard. What'na heck inspired him to come up with the passage at 11:21?!!

Man, Leontyne could just stand there and fart and it would sound great! What a great piece. Thanks so, bro Fro, ya' know?

[KenNickels]

[quote="VitcoMusic"]Great topic. Stravinsk's 'Firebird Suite' comes to mind.

How did all these great composers hear these textures in their head with no VSL Libraries to test it out? Just pencil (or quill pen) and paper?!?!

Or a delinquent cochlea. No one has mentioned Ludwig Van, the poor bastard.

Thankfully for us he had a first class musical mind and righteous sense of destiny, otherwise he would have given up and become an insurance salesman like Charles Ives (not that there's anything wrong with that).

i mean, whether you need to hear yourself bang on the piano or whether it's a cerebral event like deaf LVB, in the end idea always trumps technique.

Ives
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4grS6KPGPA4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Beethoven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ9uteDz3So" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Frodo]

How did all these great composers hear these textures in their head with no VSL Libraries to test it out? Just pencil (or quill pen) and paper?!?!

They laid in a summer meadow with their fingers interlocked behind their heads, shut out the rest of the world, and tapped into that still, small voice that otherwise gets drowned out by the rest of the world (and the twitterverse). I'm a firm believer that when music chooses its composer/medium it's spot-on accurate, moreso than the other way around.

No one has mentioned Ludwig Van, the poor bastard.

Ken, Beethoven is my unrivaled favorite. For a lot of composers, the concept of "genius" necessitates a discussion of those masters who broke the rules rather than those who wrote the rules. The conundrum with Beethoven is that he broke the rules AND wrote new ones to the point where he unintentionally made himself the very fulcrum by which musical history pivots upon itself.

Beethoven's orchestration? It's pretty conventional really. It's right out of the tradition of Haydn and Mozart. But I don't look at Beethoven as one who reinvented the concepts of orchestration "per se". I look at him as one who redefined musical vision in general... not only within the conventions but well beyond those conventions in terms of the nature of his compositions.

I'm prepping Beethoven's 4th Piano Concerto for a performance to go down (or up?) in March. Other than Ringo's drum kit, Ludwig is very much on my mind these days. Over the coming weeks, I hope to revisit ALL of his middle works-- the violin concerto, the 6th symphony, the piano sonatas opp. 54-81a, etc.... given that the 4th Concerto is op. 58. I want to know what was on his mind during that time in his life. He was nearly deaf as a post by that point, but his "ears" were just fine, if you know what I mean.

Thankfully for us he had a first class musical mind and righteous sense of destiny, otherwise he would have given up and become an insurance salesman like Charles Ives (not that there's anything wrong with that).

And who art thou who posts so selectively to offer such brilliant insight? Why don't you post more, dude!!??!!! Ken, you bring good food to the table. Thank you for that. I'm feasting.

frodo

[KenNickels]

*** They laid in a summer meadow with their fingers interlocked behind their heads, shut out the rest of the world, and tapped into that still, small voice that otherwise gets drowned out by the rest of the world (and the twitterverse). I'm a firm believer that when music chooses its composer/medium it's spot-on accurate, moreso than the other way around. ***

Sounds like Wordsworth ....

Frodo, I agree with your thoughtful comments and point of view. I may have misspoken when I said that ideas were more important than technique and execution. After all, any musician can have an idea. But a good practitioner never separates the two. I was just wondering how a deaf person could compose music without hearing it , Mozart too, though he had fully functional ears but apparently never needed them, it seems, and diddled away on paper the contents of his mind. But compare this to another genius like Stravinsky who could not compose a single line without an actual piano in front of him, in tune or not.

Consider what might have happened had Stravinsky lost his hearing. How would he have adapted? What kind of music would emerge? People say that Beethoven compensated the bass, the treble, the whole bloody spectrum in his music because he could not hear what his anemic nineteenth century piano put out. It's a valid question to ask. •••• man, my left ear is half gone from rock and roll music. Doesn't everything become cerebral after a point?

I love Beethoven. Best of luck on the Concerto, Frodo, What's your involvement in this, specifically?

[Frodo]

As pianist. It's challenging. It's wonderful. It's time-consuming. It's rewarding. I've done the First, Second, and the Fifth, but the Fourth is a whole different can of worms.

My problem is that I can spend 6 hours at the piano working on Beethoven... [chop]

You mean you will PLAY the 4th Concerto, as in a hobbit that sits at the piano and plays it?!?!?!?

If so, all I can say is WOW! I mean, I knew you were an accomplished and successful composer and conductor, but I had no idea you had those kind of chops at the piano. You must be one hell of a pianist to play those concertos!

Hats off to you, my friend!

[Frodo]

Somehow, your last post looked as if I posted it! Not sure how that happened. Hmm.

Chops? Ugh. I'm working on it/them and am having a blast tackling it-- lest it tackles me!

[FMiguelez]

You mean you will PLAY the 4th Concerto, as in a hobbit that sits at the piano and plays it?!?!?!?

If so, all I can say is WOW! I mean, I knew you were an accomplished and successful composer and conductor, but I had no idea you had those kind of chops at the piano. You must be one hell of a pianist to play those concertos!

Hats off to you, my friend!

Somehow, your last post looked as if I posted it! Not sure how that happened. Hmm.

Chops? Ugh. I'm working on it/them and am having a blast tackling it-- lest it tackles me!

FRODO!!

I'm SO SORRY

I responded to your last post... I was distracted with a lot of opened windows (it's very late and I'm tired) and I accidentally EDITED your post.

I forgot we are in the Composition forum. I guess I pressed edit instead of quote. I just realized!

I will try to recover it... somehow.

I am so sorry. I feel so bad

[Frodo]

I'm SO SORRY

I responded to your last post... I was distracted with a lot of opened windows (it's very late and I'm tired) and I accidentally EDITED your post.

I forgot we are in the Composition forum. I guess I pressed edit instead of quote. I just realized!

I will try to recover it... somehow.

I am so sorry. I feel so bad

Not a problem, FM. I've done the same thing before. No harm done.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Maybe the patch on his eye blocked the right tab. I've done that more than once as well.

[FMiguelez]

Maybe the patch on his eye blocked the right tab. I've done that more than once as well.

Yeah. It had to be the patch...

I just feel bad because his response was a thoughtful one (as usual)

The 4th Piano Concerto is one of my favorite ones. The dialog between the orchestra and piano in the 3rd movement is simply amazing.

[Frodo]

Maybe the patch on his eye blocked the right tab. I've done that more than once as well.

Yeah. It had to be the patch...

I just feel bad because his response was a thoughtful one (as usual)

Is that a General MIDI patch?

The 4th Piano Concerto is one of my favorite ones. The dialog between the orchestra and piano in the 3rd movement is simply amazing.

Fun stuff, that piece. The back and forth in the 2nd movement blows me away as well. The orchestra is screaming at the piano like an angry accuser, but the piano stays quiet and plays innocent. It's only after a while that the orchestra seems to accept the piano quietly pleading "its case" that the orchestra quiets down. The piano then works its way up to its only forte in the entire movement. Whatever the piano "says" to the orchestra, the orchestra seems to agree and never plays loud again.

It's also the shortest second movement of all the piano concertos. All the other slow movements are as weighty as their outer counterparts, but the 4th Concerto is so unique in so many ways-- more lyrical, much more subtle in its "message", but probably more difficult to play because of its deceptive simplicity.

G major is a great key. Have you noticed that the first movement begins like a Mac start-up chime?

[KenNickels]

Electroacoustica likes Debussy. I do too. What about Tomita? I love the fakeness and the glory and the electronic expression.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF4UmgQxzpM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And here is Blade Runner - the electronic gestures are everything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_saUN4j7Gw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Beautiful.

[KenNickels]

Perhaps this should be directed to another thread, but no one has mentioned favorite film composers or compositions. Often I watch films just to hear the music. We had great cinematic music from the thirties and forties, but when you get to the fifties and even the sixties, it sounds like monkeys were employed, throwing ink on score paper, and the more ink the better. Dreadful.

Now we have guys like Thomas Newman (Road to Perdition) and James Newton Howard (The Village) whose contributions are more than 'background music' and 'atmosphere' but content that stands on its own. These are really good times, folks. Let's hear some film favorites from the forum.

[ootini]

I hope I'm not about to get laughed off this forum, but in no particular order:

Hans Zimmer
Randy Edelman
Angelo Badalamenti
John Barry
John Williams
Enni Morricone
Rachmaninov
Gustavo Santaolalla
Claude Debussey
John Cage
Lalo Schifrin
Danny Elfman
Thomas Newman
James Horner

I've just got a thing for movie soundtracks.