Could I be unlucky and have 2 faulty 424 cards?

[JeffB]

Standard firewire cables here. No issues at all.

[lorngus]

Standard firewire cables here. No issues at all.

thanks for that info JeffB...

can you tell me if you are using just one motu device or multiple?

if multiple can you describe you sync setup!

cheers!

[Fishmed]

This is a total crapshot (and I believe connecting the wordclock BNC to all interfaces is the way to go) but anyway:
As you yourself noted, the audiowire connections are proprietary format, but also, the cables are supposedly a tiny bit different and MOTU recommends using their supplied 'audiowire cables'. So if you are using standard FW cables that might cause problems. Although I think it's unlikely.

again, another thing that crossed my mind!

can anyone confirm this they are indeed slightly different from standard FW cables?
I found this on the 'SOUND ON SOULD' review!

"Audiowire is MOTU's proprietary audio protocol, which utilises standard 6-pin Firewire cables and connectors."

here is the link

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/articles/motu.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Both of my units were bought used (but still boxed, and mint condition) so I have no way of knowing at this time if the cable in the box was the original. I will need to contact the previous owners to check, but then again I will only have their word on in!

the thing is that the problem switches from one unit to the other depending on which is getting direct wordclock so that seem to rule out the cable unless the sync to not getting back to the 424 card via the FW cable?

Motu do state in their manual that any 'custom' 6 pin - 6 pin FW cable can be used as long as it does not exceed the recomended max length!

this is the cable detail on the motu site...
https://www.motu.com/store/accessories/firewire-cables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this is food for thought... I'll look into it if I still get no joy with my bnc cables!

thanks

None of my 3 cables are the original MOTU cables.

[JeffB]

In my studio I have a 1296 and a 2408Mk3 connected to a PCI424 card with the sync provided by the PCI424.

[lorngus]

BINGO!!!! well, early tests seems to indicate this had done the trick!

I bought a 'passive' BNC-T Junction and linked the 2 x word clock inputs together... But I find this really strange because on page 89 of the manual it states...

"Each MOTU PCI audio interface in the system gets it's clock from the audio wire cable connection to the PCI-424 card (unless it is the master clack card itself). there is not need to make word clock connections between interfaces."

..and also next to figure 9-4:

"The entire PCI-424 system can be clocked from any sync source on any connected interface. After you choose a source from this menu, the entire system, including all connected interfaces synchronizes to it with sample accurate precision"

....so the above appears to be incorrect (at least when using PC 64 bit drivers) but because these two statements were so clear I did not think there was any point in going down this route!

so, now to install all my software again and put it through it's paces over the holidays to see if it holds up! I'll let everyone know the result.

may next step will be to get and active distribution system!

thanks to all who posted and helped and showed interest in my un-orthodox post (frustration brings out the worst in me, and believe me.... I was about to sling the whole system into the trash can)

anyway, at least I should be able to get a good price for my other 424 cards... that will also ease the pain! but right now I'm walking on air!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I love a happy ending. OTOH, I'm sitting on air. LOL.

[torrentg]

Awesome.

Good job and very glad to hear it!

[Fishmed]

That is AWESOME news , I am sure it will remain stable. Once you get settled in on your system, take a look at the Cue Mix program. I ignored it for the longest time, but once I got several other MOTU units, it has become a very important part of my routing. My whole studio is now built around my MOTU system that I could not even think of switching to soemthing else.

[lorngus]

That is AWESOME news , I am sure it will remain stable. Once you get settled in on your system, take a look at the Cue Mix program. I ignored it for the longest time, but once I got several other MOTU units, it has become a very important part of my routing. My whole studio is now built around my MOTU system that I could not even think of switching to soemthing else.

I'm not sure where cue mix would fit into my way of working. 48 channels streamed directly to my digital desk ... what do you think were the benefits you discovered?

[James Steele]

One note about the "standard FW cables"... sometimes the metal part of the connector that goes into the PCI-424 card isn't long enough on a standard FW cable and doesn't seat deeply/completely enough, causing problems. Some users have shaved or cut back some of the plastic molding around the connector to fix this.

As for running wordlock BNC cables to more than one MOTU interface, my understanding was that it's not necessary and accomplishes nothing. But if it's working that way, I won't ask why-- at least it's working. When working with DP anyway, you designate a wordclock source and you can only choose one wordclock source on a single MOTU audio interface. That interface is clocked from the BNC wordclock input, but the whole PCI-424 system syncs as a unit and the other interfaces are sync'd via the AudioWire cables.

One test I did to check this was connecting wordclock to both my MOTU interfaces and then changing the sample rate to the secondary audio interface to a different rate. It did not change. Only changing the sample rate to the audio interface designated as the master would cause a change.

Still, haven't read your whole thread here, but if it's working how you've connected it, why question.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Still, haven't read your whole thread here...

Probably why I'm still a member. I better go cover my tracks!

[lorngus]

As for running wordlock BNC cables to more than one MOTU interface, my understanding was that it's not necessary and accomplishes nothing. But if it's working that way, I won't ask why-- at least it's working.

this was exactly the reason why I did not investigate this route earlier.. all I know is that it worked!

Is this a fluke? I don't know! could it still be the drivers? ... maybe!
however, a few people contributing to this thread pointed me in this direction so I am certianly not the only one using this method. I still think I need to have it running for a while before I can honestly say this is 100% solid now!

one the point of the problem with some standard FW cables: I would imagine that there would be more problems than just bad sync. if the pins were too short would the card even see the connected units?

thanks for you input

[Fishmed]

I'm not sure where cue mix would fit into my way of working. 48 channels streamed directly to my digital desk ... what do you think were the benefits you discovered?

Good Question.

I decided to switch from a typical mixer (I have used both analog and digital over the years) to a summing mixer. I wanted a fully recallable system as I could possibly build for mixing. Software for the PC finally evolved enough for me not to use more of the plug-ins during the mix process, so this made the Eqs on the mixing board irrelevant and I was able to route AUX signals from the DAW to other MOTU outputs to the external effects units.

I still needed a way to monitor multiple tracks from my HD24; I have long lost my faith in tracking to the PC. At first I was looking at something like the Speck X.Sum where I would have pan and volume control over mono or stereo channels. During this time I started playing with the Cue Mix mainly for the routing control to the effects units.

I realized that I could use the Cue Mix to reroute inputs from the same MOTU unit or another to a specific output. This feature helped me in two ways.

1) I was able to route the effects sends from the DAW to the 1224/308 to outboard gear and then back to the MOTU unit. Using the Cue Mix, I could then route all inputs of the 1224 & 308 to a single output pair on the 2408. That output then went to the summing mixer. This saved me from having to dedicate multiples inputs on the summing mixer, which saved me some money from having to buy one with more inputs. On a side note, I use MIDI to control the patches on the effect units, so when I load a project, everything is recallable.

2) Since I can route multiple inputs to a single output pair, I am able to route the digital inputs of the HD24 to main out of the 1224, which is wired to my monitoring system, bypassing the summing mixer. The Cue Mix allows me to adjust the panning and volume of each track of the HD24. Since this is just for monitoring, EQ and effects are not necessary, but I can route signals to the outboard gear and back to the monitoring mix if needed.

Although the way Cue Mix has benefited me might not fit your needs, I think it is a flexible tool that can be used to solve unexpected routing issues. It can even be used as digital patch bay, expandable with the addition of other MOTU modules.

My main point is to show that the PCI-424 system can be used for more than just sending channels from a DAW to the mixer. With a possible 96 I/O (4 units) with various connections, the combinations are quite amazing for the money.

Off topic here, but there are so many manufactures making products with multiple headphone distribution, a while back I sent an email to MOTU with a request to design a new unit for headphones for the PCI-424 card. Imagine how convenient it would be to use Cue Mix to create a specific mix per headphone. Needless to say, I never heard back from them.

[lorngus]

I'm not sure where cue mix would fit into my way of working. 48 channels streamed directly to my digital desk ... what do you think were the benefits you discovered?

Good Question.

I decided to switch from a typical mixer (I have used both analog and digital over the years) to a summing mixer. I wanted a fully recallable system as I could possibly build for mixing. Software for the PC finally evolved enough for me not to use more of the plug-ins during the mix process, so this made the Eqs on the mixing board irrelevant and I was able to route AUX signals from the DAW to other MOTU outputs to the external effects units.

I still needed a way to monitor multiple tracks from my HD24; I have long lost my faith in tracking to the PC. At first I was looking at something like the Speck X.Sum where I would have pan and volume control over mono or stereo channels. During this time I started playing with the Cue Mix mainly for the routing control to the effects units.

I realized that I could use the Cue Mix to reroute inputs from the same MOTU unit or another to a specific output. This feature helped me in two ways.

1) I was able to route the effects sends from the DAW to the 1224/308 to outboard gear and then back to the MOTU unit. Using the Cue Mix, I could then route all inputs of the 1224 & 308 to a single output pair on the 2408. That output then went to the summing mixer. This saved me from having to dedicate multiples inputs on the summing mixer, which saved me some money from having to buy one with more inputs. On a side note, I use MIDI to control the patches on the effect units, so when I load a project, everything is recallable.

2) Since I can route multiple inputs to a single output pair, I am able to route the digital inputs of the HD24 to main out of the 1224, which is wired to my monitoring system, bypassing the summing mixer. The Cue Mix allows me to adjust the panning and volume of each track of the HD24. Since this is just for monitoring, EQ and effects are not necessary, but I can route signals to the outboard gear and back to the monitoring mix if needed.

Although the way Cue Mix has benefited me might not fit your needs, I think it is a flexible tool that can be used to solve unexpected routing issues. It can even be used as digital patch bay, expandable with the addition of other MOTU modules.

My main point is to show that the PCI-424 system can be used for more than just sending channels from a DAW to the mixer. With a possible 96 I/O (4 units) with various connections, the combinations are quite amazing for the money.

Off topic here, but there are so many manufactures making products with multiple headphone distribution, a while back I sent an email to MOTU with a request to design a new unit for headphones for the PCI-424 card. Imagine how convenient it would be to use Cue Mix to create a specific mix per headphone. Needless to say, I never heard back from them.

some interesting stuff there, thanks for taking the time to write it up. this is probably something I will look at when my board dies although my DXB does have fantastic routing option similar to what you have described plus it has 2 x Universal audio effects cards built in that I don't really want to give up just yet. I love having faders to touch and hate using a mouse (don't we all..lol) and I also have some vintage outboard sound modules which require 24 analogue connections.. so along with my 48 digital channels and it would be pretty hard to find something that can hook all of this up and still have total recall...

anyway, three days on and the motu system is still running ok...

off-topic: have you tried the Lexicon 224 with the universal audio card? outstanding plugin!

[Fishmed]

off-topic: have you tried the Lexicon 224 with the universal audio card? outstanding plugin!

No, but I do have a PCM-81 and three V-Verbs, all connect via digital I/O. I would like to get the PCM-91 now that the used prices have dropped. My two analong only effects are a pair of Ensoniq DP Pro. They were supposed to have digital I/O upgrade, but the company went under before they could mass produce them. I was pretty bumbed about that.

As far as software goes, I plan to get the Lexicon MPX. I prefer software reverb for electronic music, and outboard reverb for real accoustic music.