Electric Guitar Microphone Ideas

[daniel.sneed]

IMHO, if you're not after some sparkling sounds, ribbon mics will do wonders on electric guitar cabinets. Something magic in bass and low-mid. Deep and tight. I'm sold to it.

[mhschmieder]

I've heard great things about those Sontronics mics, but unfortunately have never had access to one to try it. Stephen's recommendation gives me more reason to consider taking a chance on one.

I am hoping to get around to some re-amping of some legacy DI-only tracks tonight or tomorrow night, and may try the two-mic approach in order to give more depth. I just recently received the magnificent new reissue of John Cuniberti's Re-Amp box from Radial Engineering.

Most of my mics are still at a project studio awaiting completion of those recording sessions later this month (I didn't want to waste time breaking down a full drum setup), but I do have the MD421 with me and also my newest mic (bought in April, I think), which is the ShinyBox MXL46 (I'm doing this from memory).

I used the ShinyBox ribbon mic on some acoustic instruments last weekend and was VERY impressed, but it is EXTREMELY low output so now I'm thinking I may need to accelerate my purchase of a higher-gain pre-amp (the one I've picked out is the DACS Clarity, but I was originally planning on buying the AEA TRP), as I was at max gain on my True Precision 8 the entire time and STILL had to boost the recorded signal afterwards to even get the peaks close to -20 dB. It would have been too hard to mix otherwise.

At any rate, this is a beautifully detailed mic that picks up all the transients and has no high end brittleness. That worked great on my Tiple and Cuatro as well as Appalachian Dulcimer, but that's no guarantee it will translate well to a mid-range instrument like electric guitar.

The spaciousness of this mic leads me to believe it will be a great all-around Room Mic for almost anything though, whether it be in front of the drum set or in front of a guitar cabinet several feet or more back, or even to pick up a choir, woodwind quintet, or other small chamber group. I'm even willing to bet it will be great on piano.

I picked up the two Audix CabGrabbers a few months back and they are helping when regular mic stands just can't get into position. There is no overlap in their coverage, which is good. I use the big one for my bass cabinet and the little one for my guitar cabinet. The big one will probably also be called upon when recording Marshall amps as they often are deeper. But they are a bit frustrating in how they limit your placement angles, so they aren't for everyone.

[Phil O]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Cascade Fathead. I think they are an excellent complement to a 57 on guitar cab. Use the Fathead by itself or blend it with a 57.

If I'm looking for a "what I hear in the room is what I record" kinda guitar sound, I pull out my trusty AT4050. It's usually thought of as a vocal mic, but it does a very good job as an instrument mic as well when transparency is desired.

Also, regarding the i5. I've gotten very good results with an i5 on a guitar cabinet, but not easily. Positioning was critical. I think the sm57 is much more forgiving in terms of positioning than the i5, but the i5 (once I found the sweet spot) had a better defined low end. I'm slowly learning the quirks of the i5. It's a different animal. Try it on toms - sweet.

Phil

[James Steele]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Cascade Fathead. I think they are an excellent complement to a 57 on guitar cab. Use the Fathead by itself or blend it with a 57.

If I'm looking for a "what I hear in the room is what I record" kinda guitar sound, I pull out my trusty AT4050. It's usually thought of as a vocal mic, but it does a very good job as an instrument mic as well when transparency is desired.

Also, regarding the i5. I've gotten very good results with an i5 on a guitar cabinet, but not easily. Positioning was critical. I think the sm57 is much more forgiving in terms of positioning than the i5, but the i5 (once I found the sweet spot) had a better defined low end. I'm slowly learning the quirks of the i5. It's a different animal. Try it on toms - sweet.

Thanks for chiming in Phil. You know, I have the first gen Fathead and I didn't really spend much time with it. Truth is, I'm much more of a player and songwriter than an engineer and I struggled with using two mics and phase cancellation, etc. One of those mics was the Fathead. I should try again.

Also, interesting what you said about the i5. Perhaps that's why I gave up on it. I didn't have anyone to assist me with placement and it's damn near impossible if you're in the room with the amp, playing guitar, positioning the mic, etc. yourself. Headphones won't tell you squat because you're in the room with the amp. I need to have a friend out in the studio moving the mic while I'm listening in my control room and playing guitar.

I go with the Groove Tubes GT-66 because I just set it about where I want it and done deal.

[Phil O]

Headphones won't tell you squat because you're in the room with the amp. I need to have a friend out in the studio moving the mic while I'm listening in my control room and playing guitar.

Indeed. The few times I've been asked to lay down tracks on someone's project, it's been a PIA. If I had someone to tweak while I play or play while I tweak it would be so much easier, but I work alone. With that said, I would definitely re-visit the Fathead if I were you. It can be a great sounding mic. But like any mic, it's good for some situations and not so good for others. A great engineer I used to work with always gave this advise: "Experiment, experiment, experiment."

Phil

[mhschmieder]

Yeah, I struggled with that last night just doing some acoustic recording!

Once you find the best position and wander back to the desk (even if it's close by, you still have to move a bit to get to it), you can rarely re-find that same sweet spot unless someone else is manning the desk and you can stay put.

It isn't that much different when you're trying to find the best spot and angle plus distance for a mic on a cabinet.

So maybe I should give the i5 another shot too, when one of my many uber-talented guitarist friends is over this weekend -- I'm a better recording engineer than guitarist anyway (my specialty is bass).

I've heard the Fathead recommended a lot, and it frequently goes on sale. I think I'll hold off a bit until trying the ShinyBox ribbon mic on distance mic duties though. It's on the radar though.

[mhschmieder]

We did some extensive mic tests last night using my new Jet City 20 watt amp head and my friend's Marshall 1960A 4x12 half-stack. We used several mic positions and played clean and high gain parts, then compared all 36 results.

My new Audio Technica ATM650 consistently came out ahead of the Audix i5 in the category of small diaphragm dynamic mics, being more detailed and more neutral but being equally sympathetic to the gear. The Audix is a bit harsher than the AT in the upper mids.

But the reigning king -- the Sennheiser MD421 mk II -- blew them both out of the water; no contest. By far the most neutral, and with the most detail. Interestingly, it is more position dependent than the other two dynamic mics in the shootout (we had earlier ruled out a dozen or so other mics in favour of the MD421).

We also tried my three new condenser mics. The CAD e70 pencil condenser was very nasally, honky, harsh, and overall unpleasant, but did provide a bit more detail than the Audix or ATM650, and was slightly better in a mid-way position between cone and rim. The AT4033/CL was crisp but had an upper frequency bump that was a bit harsh, and was hard to position due to its enormous shock mount and its overall large diaphragm.

The star of the show was the FET-based CAD e100 reissue, which had by far the most dynamics of any of the mics, a tiny bit of colour, and a lot of warmth as well as astonishing detail.

In the end, we decided the best way to record that setup (and the others we tried, involving Mesa/Boogie gear) is to use the CAD e100 roughly mid-way between cone and rim on the lower left speaker, the Sennheiser MD421 mk II in a similar position on the lower right speaker, and the ShinyBox 46MXL ribbon mic on a floor mic stand about 5 feet away and centered on the four speakers.

This combination gives the most dimension, detail, and character, and sounds the most like what we hear in the room.

We didn't find any advantage to mixing the three tracks with any panning or with any variation in the relative levels (they were recorded at the same level). But when I start applying EQ, I may find that it helps to EQ each track differently and to pan the left and right mics a bit.

The Sennheiser was right against the speaker grille, but the CAD e100 had to be about an inch away due to its design.

[crduval]

I'm a one man operation, and typically use a 421 and an SM 58 in combination, on axis and close as possible to the speaker between cone and rim. I run a 4x12 and a separate sealed 1x12 cabinet so I can move some air. I've tried other combinations, but the 421 is big and smooth, and the shure gives me a little edge. One of these days I'll try a ribbon too...

To the OP, if all you have is a 57, make sure to get it up close to that speaker (remove the grille if needed) and use the proximity effect to your advantage - it can add significant ballsiness to the sound:)

Also remember that even great mics don't hear like your ears - so tweak your tone listening to the mics, even if it changes your room sound. The sound they capture is what will be heard by everyone else. It took me a while to accept that, but it's improved my recorded sound significantly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mikehalloran]

I like ribbon mics with a little distance and would never get close to the cone - except that what clients expect.

I use to use my Beyer M-500 but the ribbon has gotten old and stiff. Someone has recently come out with a pure aluminum replacement in the original design - I will have that done soon in hopes to restore bass response to this formerly excellent mic.

My current go to is an old Groove Tubes GT-5A, a class A FET that was discontinued before the GT-66 was made. Still love that mic for certain things.

Some players like a 57 or 58 shoved up next to the cone and, if that's what they want, I give it to them.

I don't like multiple mics but it isn't about me. I'll use the trick of flipping one out of polarity till I get the max bass cancellation then flipping it back for max bottom end. Ribbons have a much deeper floor that sounds great in the cans yet can be trimmed to make the bass and kick less muddy.

A C-12 is useful as is a C-1000-S sometimes.

Unfortunately, the sounds that guitarists like the best often make for the worst sounding mixes. For that reason, the U-47 (or clone) that I sometimes use for tracking is left out of the mix completely or put through a hi-pass filter when the kick and bass come in. I really can't think of a worse mic to use on an electric guitar cab if there is a bass and drum set on the song.

A 57 stuck in front of the cab does fit well in many mixes. Give me a Fathead with a Luendahl transformer or an A-84 in front of a Deluxe or Princeton Reverb and I'll give you a wall of sound.

I'm not a fan of mic emulation. I sold my hardware and rarely use the software. Sometimes, however, I'll reach for it when the client wants to play with the sound of the lead guitar in the mix.

[daniel.sneed]

[...]I use to use my Beyer M-500 but the ribbon has gotten old and stiff. Someone has recently come out with a pure aluminum replacement in the original design - I will have that done soon in hopes to restore bass response to this formerly excellent mic.
[...]

Mike, AFAICT, the M500 is a vocal ribbon. I've had one back in the days. Loved it. Very bright and articulate. But quite no low end at all.
That's why I wouldn't use it on guitar cabinet. But, of course, that's just me.

BTW, if you find a more than decent M500 replacement ribbon at a reasonable price, please, send me a link. For I still have a silent one in the attic!

[mikehalloran]

[...]

BTW, if you find a more than decent M500 replacement ribbon at a reasonable price, please, send me a link. For I still have a silent one in the attic!

These guys use a pure aluminum replacement ribbon in the original design. $150. The performance and output of the original with better bass and it won't stiffen up over time like the original Duralum element. This is where I am sending mine. I don't want it to sound like something else; I want it to sound like an M500 but better:
http://samaraudiodesign.com/RibbonMicMods.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are others who use a standard RCA ribbon in these. Smoother highs but far less output - many have them done in the M500, though. There are other mics that benefit from this mod a lot more, IMO. If it was another Beyer other than the M500, I would have these guys do it - also $150.
Talking Dog Transducer Company http://www.thuntek.net/~bk11/bk11.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BKK-OZ]

I can't say enough good things about this company and their microphones.... they all sound great and look wonderful, and this new one, the Halo has been designed specifically with miking guitar amps in mind
http://www.sontronics.com/halo.htm
Cheers
Stephen

I've got the Saturn too and do like it v. much.
How do you find the Chimera?
I can't find anyone with a decent price on that here in Oz.

If you are looking for a ribbon, check out Bees Neez.
I almost bought one of his ribbons the last time I bought a mic, I probably will get one at some point in the future. I haven't tried them, but others give them a good rep.

[Prime Mover]

The engineer I usually work with has been switching to Audix mics for his goto collection, he's been steadily replacing SM57s and 58s with i5s and OM-2s, which to my ears, are just a whole new level of clarity and realism. I hate to say it, after using i5s, I don't think I'll ever buy another SM57. Not only that, but they're built better (no rattly casing), and even more durable, from the reviews I've read (not that I've had enough time to see them smack the floor). Audix tends to market themselves around drum mics, but I've been using them on a lot of things, and they just work. i5s just fit in anywhere a 57 used to, and they sound better. Much crisper in the high end, they start to get that shimmer that usually only condensers can capture. They're great for guitar cabs.

[Gravity Jim]

I went through a long "SM57/58 vs. The World" shoot-out a while back. The Audix iSeries mics came highly recommended, but I found them too brilliant for most applications: I much preferred the Sennheiser E-Series mics for their smooth but very present high end. I do own an SM57 that really cooks on guitar cabs, but I rarely use it alone.

For a really critical part, lately I've been micing my cabs with the afore-mentioned SM57 about 4 inches off the grille and a Shure KSM313 about 12 inches out (using the 3:1 ratio to avoid phase problems and adjusting in tiny amounts accordingly). The KSM313 is a wonderful ribbon mic.... one side of the capsule exhibits that fat, dark thing you expect from a ribbon mic, the other side gives more of the high-end you expect from a condenser. Extremely versatile and durable (This is the Roswellite™ mic originally sold by Crowley and Tripp; Shure bought them out without changing the manufacturing).

Then if I'm micing my open-back cab I will sometimes (for max 3-D) hang a condenser behind the box 180° out of phase with the front mics and dial in a little of that, often panned off hard to one side. Depending on the guitar, a Shure KSM32 works well, as does the thicker midrange of an AT 4033.

This has been a fun year for guitars here: I bought a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin (single neck P-90) in black, which is great for country rhythm and that David Rawlings "cheap archtop" sound played acoustically and nice old-school jazz tones plugged in (I have it strung with TI flatwounds)... got an early 50's Oahu lap steel that sounds incredible, and picked up a PRS Singlecut SE for $295 with the gig bag and without a mark on it.

Also, I became an Egnater Artist this last year. Ask me about the versatility of my Rebel 20 head, coupled with an array of Egnater and other cabinets (the multitap OT lets you drive anything that falls to hand... amazing grind through the 1940's Magnavox movie projector speakers I've got in the place right now).


Man, once I get typing, it's hard to stop.