Neo Soul Keys Rhodes Library

claudemeyer · Post by **claudemeyer** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:28 pm

I discovered by hazard this EP library.
http://neosoulkeys.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you listen to the demos and the 4 product learning videos, ....
I am really impressed. An other new temptation for Christmas ?

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:01 pm

This has probably been discussed before, but I haven't the time to do a search right now.

The bottom line is that this library is very well-done in its original version, and is bound to be better after the overhaul it just got (include a new sample set).

This is my go-to Rhodes library now, but I still find cases where Scarbee handles certain material a bit more smoothly.

That may change with the update.

I tried to do the update yesterday but the website was overwhelmed, so I decided to wait a few days. It's only $20 for previous owners.

The new name is due to trademark issues on the term "Suitcase".

philbrown · Post by **philbrown** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:52 am

This looks pretty interesting. All the sample based Rhodes I've tried (including Scarbee) have left me pretty cold. They just don't have that snap and bark of a Rhodes IMO. I'm using Pianoteq with my own edits these days. Physical Modeling (vs sampling) seems to help the cause somehow in making it more realistic, again IMO. I'd love to play this one and see if it loves up to the sales pitch. I love me some Rhodes.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:58 am

philbrown wrote:This looks pretty interesting. All the sample based Rhodes I've tried (including Scarbee) have left me pretty cold. They just don't have that snap and bark of a Rhodes IMO. I'm using Pianoteq with my own edits these days. Physical Modeling (vs sampling) seems to help the cause somehow in making it more realistic, again IMO. I'd love to play this one and see if it loves up to the sales pitch. I love me some Rhodes.

The Pianoteq Rhodes is amazing. It actually behaves like a Rhodes, fluidly,
because it isn't samples. I did find one aspect of it that has to be addressed
by EQ - it tends to sound too midrangey. Easily fixed by a basic "smiley-face"
EQ. Also it sounds better if you use the "speaker" setting instead of "direct".

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:51 am

Well, there were many Rhodes models, so I'm finding it's good to have a variety of sound sources to cover that instrument family.

I am using Pianoteq sometimes, and the Neo-Soul more and more as well. The Scarbee library was good for its time but is less good since the NI re-branding (they messed up the programming somehow, and it is no longer as smooth or as easy to control via edits).

I successfully did the upgrade last night, but had just gotten home from the symphony and didn't have the time or patience to bootstrap my audio setup so I haven't tried it out yet. It may get a run-through this weekend, except I have holiday gigs and recording sessions so who knows...

philbrown · Post by **philbrown** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:06 am

David Polich wrote: The Pianoteq Rhodes is amazing. It actually behaves like a Rhodes, fluidly,
because it isn't samples. I did find one aspect of it that has to be addressed
by EQ - it tends to sound too midrangey. Easily fixed by a basic "smiley-face"
EQ. Also it sounds better if you use the "speaker" setting instead of "direct".

Agree totally. Pianoteq takes a little tweaking but very much really. I bought the Scarbee pkg before NI swallowed it up and it came with an effect plug (forget the name) that has a bunch of electric-piano effects, like amp, tremolo, overdrive etc in one plug. It's quite nice and works great with Pianoteq to put a little more old-school stank on it. I don't recall if I'm using direct or speaker in Pianoteq itself.

As anyone who has played a few Rhodes pianos knows, there's not one definitive 'Rhodes sound', in fact they vary pretty dramatically so Pianoteq with a little tweakage can be tailored not only for your personal taste and touch, but also to the song/genre. I find Physical Modeling generally tends to do well in the area of plucked or struck instruments.

Having said all that, I still would like to play around with this new (Neo) offering. It looks like they've made a good honest attempt at keeping the bark or bite or whatever you want to call that essential part of the sound.

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:30 am

philbrown wrote:
David Polich wrote: The Pianoteq Rhodes is amazing. It actually behaves like a Rhodes, fluidly,
because it isn't samples. I did find one aspect of it that has to be addressed
by EQ - it tends to sound too midrangey. Easily fixed by a basic "smiley-face"
EQ. Also it sounds better if you use the "speaker" setting instead of "direct".
Agree totally. Pianoteq takes a little tweaking but very much really. I bought the Scarbee pkg before NI swallowed it up and it came with an effect plug (forget the name) that has a bunch of electric-piano effects, like amp, tremolo, overdrive etc in one plug. It's quite nice and works great with Pianoteq to put a little more old-school stank on it. I don't recall if I'm using direct or speaker in Pianoteq itself.

VKFX

overloud bought the plug
It's on sale now $99($149 normally)
I have been trying to hold off buying because it's a bit long in the tooth - is it still a worthwhile plug to add to the arsenal?
I remember hearing great things about It a few years ago.

http://overloud.com/products/VKFX.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:37 am

I haven't had time to re-evaluate it thoroughly since its re-release under the Overloud bundle.

Sound-wise, I preferred it to SoundToys and other options when working with Scarbee libraries in the past, but its interface was fiddly (i.e. not very precision-oriented when it came to pipping the adjustments). Not sure if that's been fixed or not. VERY CPU-intensive in its first version.

I'm tending to use Neo-Soul strictly raw/dry, and adding SoundToys for processing. I definitely don't use Kontakt's effects drop-list in the revised Scarbee interface when using those new versions of that library.

I would say Overloud VKFX is probably still be the best for electric pianos. They were modeled very accurately, but more towards pre-amp and combo amp based effects; whereas Sound Toys is based more on Small Stone, Small Clone, and other EHX effects that soul/r&b/funk artists used in the 70's. Both approaches are valid, and context matters.

I also highly recommend the Overloud Spring Reverb, which I now use in place of Altiverb's various spring convolutions. Like the recent Nomad Factory offerings for delay and tape saturation, it offers several different spring models. Great for guitar, but also good on keys.

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:44 am

Which Sound Toy plugs are you referring to?

philbrown · Post by **philbrown** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:45 am

kgdrum wrote:
philbrown wrote:I bought the Scarbee pkg before NI swallowed it up and it came with an effect plug (forget the name) that has a bunch of electric-piano effects, like amp, tremolo, overdrive etc in one plug. It's quite nice and works great with Pianoteq to put a little more old-school stank on it. I don't recall if I'm using direct or speaker in Pianoteq itself.
VKFX

overloud bought the plug
It's on sale now $99($149 normally)
I have been trying to hold off buying because it's a bit long in the tooth - is it still a worthwhile plug to add to the arsenal?
I remember hearing great things about It a few years ago.

http://overloud.com/products/VKFX.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks KG, that's the one. It's purpose-specific and the right tool for the job IMO.
Glad it's still available and not lost in the shuffle. My version still works, thankfully.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:55 am

The most relevant SoundToys plug-in is the PhaseMistress (which models the EHX Electric Mistress and EHX Small Stone, amongst other classic effects).

Overall VKFX is the closest match for electric keys, however.

Novation also has an effects suite, geared towards synths and keys. I got it on the cheap but haven't used it yet. It's probably similar to the ones from Focusrite, given that they are the same company.

philbrown · Post by **philbrown** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:00 pm

I was thinking about this thread and thinking how much the amplification chain ties in with the Rhodes- easily as much as guitar+amp matters. Way back in the 70's I was living away from home and scraped up a gig with a Rhodes and Micromoog played through a borrowed black faced Fender Twin. That had some bark! That wasn't all that uncommon back then really- you heard that sound in clubs quite a bit. But to contrast that sound with a panned out jazzy Suitcase vs a Dyno-My-Piano modified all reverbed out in some pop/soul track... my point is I tend to sculpt the entire chain with piano/preamp/effects/amp/speaker/ as a complete thing rather than a "Rhodes sound' all on its lonesome. I'm from the 'put some hair on it' school as the bright/pretty/chimy side can get too pretty in a hurry... but as always, whatever works in context.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:07 pm

Phil, I do the same thing, but people rarely discuss that part of the signal path so I stick to the stuff that people talk about most. Also, because these are in the box solutions, there isn't quite as much value in dealing with the amp side of the equation (e.g. via modeling); though one could always re-amp (which I am doing more of these days).

I would like to know more about how different artists shaped their sound; although I gather one can glean that from looking at various presets in different Rhodes libraries and VI's.

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:09 pm

funny you mention it Phil,I remember the Fender Twin was what many Rhodes players used that I performed with back then and it did sound great!
I wonder how a Amp3 Fender Twin emu would compare to VKFX.....

& of course IK has a 50% sale on Fender now.
The IK site is intolerable for me, trying to figure out the point thing(I have 75) vs credits and how to redeem and apply , so convoluted!

SixStringGeek · Post by **SixStringGeek** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:02 pm

kgdrum wrote:The IK site is intolerable for me, trying to figure out the point thing(I have 75) vs credits and how to redeem and apply , so convoluted!

I do not like the a la carte sales model Amplitube 3 introduced. I want to pay one price and have it all all the time. So often I now try to open a preset for a model I bought only to find it relies on another (effects usually) model I don't have.

On and to stay on topic - I scored LoungeLizard sometime ago for cheap and I'm finding I really like that one in a mix. Some decent variety in it too.

I despise NI elektrik (muddy sounding IMO).

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