Waves Specials (still going in December...)

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Dan Worley
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by Dan Worley »

Shooshie wrote:But the Dorrough meters present an interesting variation I've never seen. They meter more than one part of the sound and show the difference between the parts. All meters attempt this to some degree, but are not necessarily successful at it.
You got to the point of it right off the bat as usual, Shooshie, and I think as you (and others) work with these meters for the ten days of the demo, you may come to appreciate them even more. They're so easy to read and simple to understand. They give out the most pertinent information in the quickest most natural way.

I often have to set up mixes while people are talking to me or around me. With the Dorroughs, I'm able to do a lot of the work without even having to hear what I'm doing. With glances at those meters, I'm able to tell what the tracks, busses and masters need to get the mix well on its way.

I never could pull the trigger on buying a hardware unit, even though I coveted them when I visited other studios. Now I can have them on every track. :shock: Isn't life grand?

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BobK
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by BobK »

When Waves released the Dorrough meters back in 2008, I'd recently read Bob Katz' book. I wanted them, but not at $500. With the current sale and a discount voucher, the stereo version was $74.50 - I couldn't pass it up. They probably would've helped with a couple of mastering projects I did in the past year.
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by jlaudon »

Ahh, Shoosh you bad man... I ended up picking up the C6 based on your post :) :)
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buzzsmith
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Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by buzzsmith »

I put the Hi-Eq, the C6 and the L3 on the master bus of a project that I thought was finished.

NOT!

The combination so improved the mastering over iZotope 4, that I'm redoing the mastering on my dime. And that was after only spending 10 minutes with basic presets and minimal tweaking.

Gonna try to read the manuals this weekend. :)

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davedempsey
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by davedempsey »

buzzsmith wrote:I put the Hi-Eq, the C6 and the L3 on the master bus of a project that I thought was finished.

NOT!

The combination so improved the mastering over iZotope 4, that I'm redoing the mastering on my dime. And that was after only spending 10 minutes with basic presets and minimal tweaking.

Gonna try to read the manuals this weekend. :)

Buzzy


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This has been my experience and is why I bumped myself up to Mercury quite a while back - the Waves plugs are still pretty well as good as it gets IMHO. Only ones I don't have are the SSL and, seeing as I'm up to be WUPPED for $200 right now I'm thinking I might outlay the extra and take the upgrade to include SSL - a bit over $400 which includes a years WUP for all plugs - means I'll effectively get SSL for a little over $200. Anyone using the SSL plugs that can comment on their merit?
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Shooshie
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by Shooshie »

jlaudon wrote:Ahh, Shoosh you bad man... I ended up picking up the C6 based on your post :) :)
I don't mind taking responsibility for that! If you are new to this set of sound-shaping plugins by Waves, there are some things that will get you up to speed quickly. The C4, Linear Phase MultiBand, and C6 are three versions of the same plugin, with roots in the C1, which more resembles the compressors we're familiar with from analog days. But the C6 and family couldn't be more different from analog devices. To get the most out of it, practice by manipulating the following and seeing what happens:

1) for each band, set the range to large positive and negative numbers. This is just for sake of experimentation and demonstration, so go ahead and set it far and wide to watch and hear what happens.

2) now set the threshold around the top of the yellow threshold meter. You should see the long orange line begin to dance up and down a bit for that band.
3) move the threshold further down and watch the results.
4) repeat with the range set to the other extreme, and at various points in between.
5) now use the gain to shape the line as you want. Using a combination of range, gain, and threshold, you can get compression with even volume, compression that changes dynamics, expansion that likewise keeps the volume more steady or changes dynamics (ie, limiting), EQ that changes with the dynamics, leveling (steady volume), and you can make some bands' ranges compress while others expand, or using the two floating bands, you can make them work against each other at specific volumes to make the results more complex.
6) the ARC release will help prevent artifacts, but manual adjustment of the releases can help with leveling or delayed decay.

Once you see how the threshold really goes to work in its sweet spot, or pushes extremes when set low, or produces mild changes when set out of the yellow range except in peaks, and so forth, you will see where the power of the C6 is. Yes, it's using basic compressor techniques, but somehow it seems a lot easier, more powerful, and far more flexible than regular compressors. The display helps to immediately establish what's going on in each band. You can solo bands to hear exactly what is happening.

Quickly set up all bands with the global controls on the far left. Then tweak each band with its own controls. If you like a setting, but you still want to hear changes, and you don't want to save it yet, just copy what you have to the B settings, then switch to B and tweak some more. The original settings are still available in the A display. Click A/B to compare.

It's pretty easy to get wrapped up in sound-shaping and lose track of your center. Bypass often for comparison, and don't forget the sound you were originally seeking.

Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by Prime Mover »

••••... I'm having an idea... maybe a bad idea.

I have an album in the can that I've been sitting on because it hasn't been mastered. I was going to send it to a mastering house, maybe a nightly rate (since I'm kinda hard up for cash right now). Now the idea has struck me that I could take some of that money and get the L3 and C6, (maybe H-EQ) and do it myself. I've been trying to study mastering for a while now, but so much of it is still a black art that the idea is kinda worrisome, though I'd love to be able to master my own material!

I can just hear my production mentor cussing me out right now for even thinking about doing this, maybe I'm completely nuts. I'm just not going to do the same quality job as someone who does this 8 hours a day for a few decades.

I gotta think about this for a bit.
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by Shooshie »

The downside is that your skills may need practice on the C6 and L3 (though I'm happy to help you skip the learning curve if that's possible, even on the phone or iChat if you like), and you might end up having to get it mastered, anyway.

Also, mastering includes a first-rate burner, the ability to make a gold master that is industry standard. Bob Katz convinced me that I NEVER want to attempt that without serious supervision. Then again, probably 90% of the people calling themselves Mastering Engineers don't know how to do that, either. Perhaps you can save on the "mastering" part, and go ahead and have someone do the burning part. I don't know. There are ways of dividing the chores.

The upside is that either way it goes, you'll have three of the best tools you could have in your arsenal. Seriously. And for really not much money when you compare to what they normally cost. For those three, you're talking about $350. I paid WAYYYY more than that for the L3 Multimaximizer alone back in about 2007. But beware… they'll start sending you vouchers, and you'll be tempted to buy more!

The key thing to remember on all these tools is that the most often committed crime against music that these devices conspire to help you commit is over-tweaking. I mean, it's FUN to have that much power to be able to shape the sound, and it still sounds real. Just remember to dial things back a bit and A/B a lot. Don't get too far afield from the actual sound. Set goals and accomplish them, rather than just seeing how far you can go. (though that's fun to experiment with)

Shooshie
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Dan Worley
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by Dan Worley »

Prime Mover wrote:••••... I'm having an idea... maybe a bad idea.

I have an album in the can that I've been sitting on because it hasn't been mastered. I was going to send it to a mastering house, maybe a nightly rate (since I'm kinda hard up for cash right now). Now the idea has struck me that I could take some of that money and get the L3 and C6, (maybe H-EQ) and do it myself. I've been trying to study mastering for a while now, but so much of it is still a black art that the idea is kinda worrisome, though I'd love to be able to master my own material!

I can just hear my production mentor cussing me out right now for even thinking about doing this, maybe I'm completely nuts. I'm just not going to do the same quality job as someone who does this 8 hours a day for a few decades.

I gotta think about this for a bit.
If you haven't installed the demos already, install them right before you start mastering so you can finish the project before the demo runs out (or at least work with them before the sale ends). That way you'll know if you want the plug-ins or not.

I think the H-EQ is cool and everything (I like it a lot for mixing), but for mastering I would go with the Sonoris Mastering EQ (there are other choices as well). You can demo it for 10 days, too.
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by BobK »

Shooshie wrote:Also, mastering includes a first-rate burner, the ability to make a gold master that is industry standard. Bob Katz convinced me that I NEVER want to attempt that without serious supervision.
I definitely do NOT call myself a mastering engineer, but in the past year or so a colleague entrusted me with mastering a couple of projects. First was a Latin jazz big band, the other Afro-Brazilian folkloric drumming and singing (the latter of which I'd also engineered vocal sessions and mixed). In each case, the tracks had pretty consistent instrumentation and sonics, and mainly needed level matching, a little finessing with EQ and reverb, a bit of compression and volume boost, sequencing of the tracks, and burning of a master for duplication.

I needed the work, but was hesitant to touch mastering. I agreed to give it a try, and if the results weren't acceptable, I wouldn't charge.

Long story short: both projects worked out fine. I mastered in DP using Masterworks EQ, Yohng's L1 clone, Waves Renaissance reverb and compressor, and maybe a couple of other MOTU plugins - no expensive or exotic plugs. I burned the CD masters with my Mac Pro's CD burner using Toast and off-the-shelf TDK CDRs. We never heard of any problems from the duplication plant.

Wait - there's one more. About three years ago I did an emergency fix on another master. Our mastering engineer, a pretty prominent name here in the Bay Area, had neglected to do a fade we'd requested (the mastering session was a nightmare, done under duress - but that's another story). We were up against a deadline to get the master to a record company. The engineer and studio were booked solid, and there was no way he could do it in time. I reluctantly did the fix in DP, and burned a new master as described above. Again, no complaints from the record company or duplication plant.

As for CD burners, I think I read somewhere that in the earlier days of home computing they were prone to more data errors than duplication plants would allow, but this is no longer the case.

I also recall reading a recommendation to burn at the slowest speeds your software and computer will allow.

If time is short, or you just don't want to try mastering, by all means have someone else do it. If you're up for it, you have nothing to lose by trying.

If you decide to give it a go, remember: Very slight adjustments go a long way. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Bob

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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by Prime Mover »

I'm surprised that CDs are still the standard. You can send a 700MB file to practically any office in the country in under 10 minutes. Wouldn't digital transfer be a lot less error prone, USPS/FedEx prone, and faster? I would think reproduction houses would be completely setup for digital transfer.
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by Shooshie »

Prime Mover wrote:I'm surprised that CDs are still the standard. You can send a 700MB file to practically any office in the country in under 10 minutes. Wouldn't digital transfer be a lot less error prone, USPS/FedEx prone, and faster? I would think reproduction houses would be completely setup for digital transfer.

I'm sure we're not far from that. My guess is that the thing slowing it down is the Mastering House industry itself. Once this starts happening, a lot of people are liable to forego the mastering engineer, since there is no particular skill needed to create a file with no overages. (Now I fully expect to hear that only high-quality transfers using some arcane internet technology will deliver error-free master files) Many people are comfortable with mastering equipment, enough to bring all cuts of an album to the exact same levels, without transients, with perfect stereo separation and bias for consumer audio gear, etc., etc., but the one thing that has held many people back has been the fear of the Gold Master. If that goes away, it could hurt the mastering industry. I'm not saying I approve; just that it's obvious that it will happen. People will begin to send their completed albums to duplication houses and bypass the mastering guys.

Another problem is that duplication facilities will have to set up network systems with massive amounts of storage space. Well, maybe not "massive," but reliable internet systems. I guess they can use 3rd party cloud facilities, but whatever the case, they've got to be set up for that, and most are probably only set up to handle physical CDs and DAT and/or analog tapes. But you know the day is coming, and you know some are already doing it. You just have to find them.

Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by BobK »

Weird - I answered this post a while ago and my message never appeared.

You can deliver DDP files (Disc Description Protocol) digitally to some (most?) manufacturers. I know next to nothing about DDP, but it's been around for a while. My impression is that in the past you needed higher-end mastering software to create this format. Now it's available in low-cost audio editors like Wave Editor. I don't have any apps that can create DDP, but the clients and manufacturers have all been fine with CDs. I always send the client at least two or three copies.
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Re: Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by conleycd »

I have been loving the Waves deals. I've been waiting for the SSL plugins to hit my mentally magic number of below $399 for Native. But am I now dependent on them? Probably. I can't do a lead vocal with a L1 (even no limiting) - it's a good nasty quality. I do like the CLA stuff which gets me where I need to be quick (but I still use a lot of other processors with them). Finally, I really like the Oneknob Wetter on just about anything that I want verb without messing around (acoustic guitars, occasional BGVs) etc.

Now... something you all should be aware of... With all these Waves deals - you can get even cheaper pricing through Tony at http://plugindiscounts.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's a Waves dealer. He can even get discounted pricing on your WUP upgrades. You just provide your Waves ID name. Now he can't post his prices you have to email him. Don't quote me on this but I find his prices are at least 10% cheaper than Waves website (he always beats them) and he gets all the specials posted (plus you get an additional discount).

Now, I did do something foolish on my most recent project. Used some SSL plugins in demo mode and sent the thing off to be mastered. Maybe this was a complex unconscious psychological scheme where I "have to" now buy them.

CC
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Waves Specials (still going in December...)

Post by kgdrum »

of course I gave in to temptation 11/30
So I got the HLS plug & w/ the coupon I am going to upgrade the Gold Native bundle --> Gold + Renn Max. (WUP expired 2003 so I think it's about time).
I also got the Vocal Rider plug & with that coupon I am going to put towards the CLA compressors.

I have been getting these from :
http://www.wavesuniverse.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another way to save $$$$


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