Kirk Hunter string libraries 75% off group buy!

Michael Canavan · Post by **Michael Canavan** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:12 pm

Haven't seen this posted here, which is odd considering the amount of you that do orchestral work. It's at freakin 75% off!

http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/signup ... up_buy.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have to get new monitors but I'm tempted to sell something to get in on this.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:19 pm

Just to clarify, is this a different sale from the one posted a few weeks ago? My head is spinning from all of the software sales that have been going on since July or so of this year -- I can't keep up! Especially with the same vendor introducing new sales every few weeks or so.

Maybe this one -- if indeed it is new and not a continuation of the other one -- is in reaction to the current EWQL two-for-one deal (good until 31 DEC), which might be a good entry point to Hollywood Strings and Brass.

Michael Canavan · Post by **Michael Canavan** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:16 pm

"the one" is not enough information. Don't know what was posted two weeks ago

, just that you get 75% off of most of their line of strings and brass etc. Slightly better deal than more or less a "buy one get one free" deal that still has your pocket book for the same cash amount. Haven't compared the two side by side, but you can pick up a small string set for under $75 with this deal.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:26 pm

It's "the one" that you posted.

I'll take a look at these and see if the price is finally convincing.

Almost all of the top string libraries have something unique about them that makes them worthwhile at the right price. Even if there's just one use for them that the other libraries can't handle...

Michael Canavan · Post by **Michael Canavan** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:36 pm

mhschmieder wrote:It's "the one" that you posted.

Same sale, just it's at %75 now, and I wish I had enough cash to buy the big versions! $200 instead of $800 is a great sale! I'm vicariously living through other people buying them and being happy!

jloeb · Post by **jloeb** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:42 pm

If I recall I and others offered a not particularly flattering estimation of KH's stuff earlier but - poking around the website for a bit listening to demos, I have to say that the new Concert Brass 2 in particular now seems to have mature, up-to-date programming and handling of interval transitions and divisi, making for some fairly impressive demos. At these prices, I would say the brass is worth it. May go in for that one, not sure yet. Downloading the 1.7GB limited trial to see if it's what it's cracked up to be...

Michael Canavan · Post by **Michael Canavan** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:25 pm

Oh BTW it wasn't me who posted it earlier and I never saw the thread!

Got me curious if I was going senile or something!

jloeb · Post by **jloeb** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:12 am

OK I played all 500 allowed notes

of my downloadable trial with the KH Concert Brass french horn section.

Good scripting. The interval sampling is good and the interval transitions time scalable; the divisi mode is flexible and effective, everything from solo horns to 2, 4 and full sections are included and the sound is very nice, very slightly wet; comes with a series of ER and LR impulses loadable from an in-GUI menu. Dynamics can be assigned to modwheel, pedal, velocity, or whatever you prefer, as can all the parameters. Unless I'm mistaken, there even seems to be a bit of round-robin implemented on repeated notes. The whole affair cribs heavily from the design principles of LASS, and these sections would actually make nice complements to LASS.

So for $87, hell yes.

I'm forced to say it:
At least as far as brass, Kirk has kicked some ass.***

***UPDATE .... kinda sorta. See my updated opinion below...

billgers · Post by **billgers** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:42 am

Can anyone offer thoughts on how the KH Brass compare to the EWSO Gold brass? I would love to upgrade my brass sounds without breaking the bank.

jloeb · Post by **jloeb** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:51 pm

I assume you're asking about EWQLSO Gold (released years ago), not Hollywood Brass Gold, which is new and much more expensive (and which I don't own).

A few differences:

- KH Concert Brass 2 was recorded relatively dry with close mics. Gold, on the other hand, has the reverb "burned in," i.e. the actual ambience from the concert hall was sampled and is triggered on release. It sounds great, but it's the only sound you can really get. If you like a nice big concert hall sound, perfect. But if you want something else, then you don't want to use Gold. Minimal to no flexibility in ambience.

- KHCB has sampled/modeled interval transitions during legato playing (a la VSL, etc). Gold doesn't; it has a minimal approximation of this using a portamento script, but it's not all that convincing and can't really be effectively used to get that distinctive connected sound in a sustained exposed passage.

- KH has divisi (if your full horn section suddenly plays a four note chord, you can voice it accurately with two horns per pitch). Gold doesn't.

- I would say the only advantage that Gold could be said to have is that the overall production values of the recording were really stellar, so it has that big John Williams soundtrack mojo right out of the box in terms of its color and ambience.

[EDIT] Another advantage that Gold could be said to have is that it has many more types of articulations actually performed by the players. So what this means is that, for example, swells in Gold are actually played swells, whereas in KH you're modeling the swell yourself with Kontakt AET and a controller. More flexible, but arguably less photorealistic. Given that note considered by itself, Gold will sound more real because it is real. The downside is that your way of working with Gold will therefore be more patchwork because you can be less expressive in real time. Neither of these libraries are VSL, and no one should be under that impression.[EDIT]

- Gold has more instruments, of course, being an orchestral set. But you can't get it for $87 either.

I don't want to say "I'd choose KHCB" outright, because I haven't tried the full product yet and although the french horn demo was excellent, there could be issues with the full product that I'm not yet aware of. With that in mind, IF the full product consistently resembles the demo, then the bottom line is that KHCB is a modern, up-to-the-minute scripted library, with all the flexibility and realism that implies, and Gold just isn't. If flexibility is important to you, then KHCB's ability to pull off realistic legatos, divisi and soloing, plus its dry recording conditions, will more than make up the difference with Gold's out-of-box turnkey sheen.

UPDATE .... kinda sorta. See my updated opinion below...

Larry Mal · Post by **Larry Mal** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:10 pm

I'm in. I'll be getting the Concert Strings and the Concert Brass. I think that'll make me an owner of all of Kirk's stuff, I have the older libraries (Emerald and Ruby, I think).

I am pretty pleased with them. I'll likely be wanting the EastWest stuff at some point as well, though.

daveyboy · Post by **daveyboy** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:35 pm

I have the Rock Strings already. Anyone know how they compare to the full brown Concert Strings? I'm not floored by them and would rather spend more on LASS unless the sound quality is comparable.

jloeb · Post by **jloeb** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:50 pm

At this point, unlike the horns, there's no true legato in the KH strings. I'd save up for a version of LASS.

toodamnhip · Post by **toodamnhip** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:12 pm

Interesting sounding string library.
I think these strings are edgier than other libraries, which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on one's needs.
One thing I did not like was that these strings seem to be a bit pitchy here and there. Perhaps the edginess makes the pitch a bit less forgiving?

jloeb · Post by **jloeb** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:02 pm

OHHhh-kay, need to update my opinion from "Holy Spankin' Deal, Batman!!!" to ... "meh," or at best, "well, okay, it was $87, fine, what did I think I would get?"

The rest of the package - the trombones and trumpets - are less forgiving to sample than french horns, and it shows. Things don't hang together as well, particularly the trumpets.

The main problem with this library (how the heck did it get to 18GB?? It sounds like something that could have been achieved in 6) is that, unless my ears are fooling me terribly, in some cases it sure seems as though there aren't any played piano or pianissimo notes that have been sampled; there's full volume, and there's AET /filtering applied to approximate softer dynamics, and it works about as well as you think it would, which is to say kinda-sorta, not too well. This seems to be true for some patches/groups, though not all.

The legato transitions fall apart pretty badly at low dynamics, as they're often louder than the notes they connect unless you manually turn the level down. That's just sloppy programming, which is strange in a product that can handle polyphonic auto-detected legato quite reliably. Also, with the trumpets/trombones, I feel as though I need to go in and add the old 1-pole EQ w/modwheel adjustable cutoff in order to strengthen a bit further the illusion that soft notes are not just loud notes turned down.

It also needs to be said that the Solo trumpet and trombone are meant ONLY for ensemble play as divisi. Exposed - let's just say "stock program" comes to mind and leave it at that. Here again, the french horn is predictably the best of the bunch far and away.

Bottom line: if you can stay mf or louder, most sections work well. Softer, and you're taking this product where it was not meant to go more than very briefly. Some solo instruments are extremely weak.

I know I've been spoiled by great libraries. But KHCB is disappointingly inconsistent, unlike a package like LASS (which is ~$1000). So I have to say, the horns demo represented the product a bit better than the product in its entirely actually delivers, and I would downgrade from:

"For $87, hell yes."

to

"For $87, if you need decent brass cheap, yeah you could do a lot worse. It's good value for that money."

I've hung back from going all in on a really top horns package because:
A) orchestral horns are usually very peripheral to what I do and I've found Synful, artfully employed, to be adequate when they're needed, and B) I know plenty of horn players for the up close and personal stuff.

I wouldn't have been harmed all that much by hanging back a bit longer to save up for a top-flight library.

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