Hardware playthru level bug ?

[Klaus]

Im probably dense here...
Sorry again...
Please, in DP,
set channelfader during rec at -12, and measure the monitoring level ( i.e -6db )
on Cuemix FX monitor output
Then record,
then playback at the same channelfader setting ( -12 )
The measured Cuemix FX monitor ( playback ) level should be -12,
not ?
It's about input monitoring vs playback, inputmonitoring will be louder by factor 2 ( dBs )
*at channelfader settings lower than unity*

Klaus

[bayswater]

Im probably dense here...
Sorry again...
Please, in DP,
set channelfader during rec at -12, and measure the monitoring level ( i.e -6db )
on Cuemix FX monitor output
Then record,
then playback at the same channelfader setting ( -12 )
The measured Cuemix FX monitor ( playback ) level should be -12,
not ?
It's about input monitoring vs playback, inputmonitoring will be louder by factor 2 ( dBs )
*at channelfader settings lower than unity*

Klaus

I'm sure its me that's having the problem here, not you. I'll go to PM until we get in sync.

[Klaus]

ok, I made a screen record...
http://www.redmountain.ch/direct%20hard ... scaled.mp4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Note : The volume of the source sine wave is constant in the movie, screen record records the 896mk3 *at input*,
but the Cuemix FX output monitor level meter reflects the actual level going out of the interface

Hope this will be seen by MotU staff

Best

Klaus

[NazRat]

Not sure if I get this right, but do you have an active CueMix mix reenforcing the DP mix output? When working with MOTU interfaces, I believe that while recording, the CueMix input faders should be pulled down because DP handles the input -> output mix. If you have the CueMix faders up on any channel (active mix in CueMix), you are creating additional signal which boosts the output from DP. In essence, set the input level via the input trim and leave the mix bus faders down. Could be completely off base here, but maybe not.

[Klaus]

Not sure if I get this right, but do you have an active CueMix mix reenforcing the DP mix output? When working with MOTU interfaces, I believe that while recording, the CueMix input faders should be pulled down because DP handles the input -> output mix. If you have the CueMix faders up on any channel (active mix in CueMix), you are creating additional signal which boosts the output from DP. In essence, set the input level via the input trim and leave the mix bus faders down. Could be completely off base here, but maybe not.

No Cuemix FX / 896mkIII standalone routing...
Note on my movie :
http://www.redmountain.ch/direct%20hard ... scaled.mp4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If any additional routing would be involved, the level would remain at a certain point ( where the additional routing would occur ) and not drop exactly 2:1 in dB

Klaus

[bayswater]

Klaus, I repeated your demo on my setup. Not the same result as yours, but surprising. There is no sound, but you can see what happens on the meters.

http://www.heavyethics.com/DPAV/Screen%20Recording.mov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Klaus]

Klaus, I repeated your demo on my setup. Not the same result as yours, but surprising. There is no sound, but you can see what happens on the meters.

http://www.heavyethics.com/DPAV/Screen%20Recording.mov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now I am asking, do you have any Cuemix FX monitoring adding up ?
It looks like that, please make sure *all* Cuemix FX masters are muted, and test only with DP

Klaus

[tommymandel]

Klaus,
Magic Dave has explained to me that CueMix is active even if it isn't launched. That is, whatever state it was last Quit in, the hardware remains configured thusly.

Now it is possible that the Magic Dave quote I'm going to add below this line is not germane to your situation, because, as you pointed out, you're Firewire, not PCI. But it still may apply:

CueMix is completely independent from DP. You have CueMix software which allows you to set up and control the mix on the PCI card. Once that mix is set up, you can quit the CueMix software and the card stays in that mix setup until you change it. Yes, the computer has to be running in order for CueMix to work. No, DP does not need to be running in order for CueMix to work.

If this were the case, your fader settings in CueMix may be causing the proportional disparity between your input and playback meter readings, even if CueMix is not launched.

[bayswater]

Yes, the Cuemix master was adding to the signal. When muted, the results are the same as yours -- 2:1.

[Klaus]

Yes I know, the hardware remains as in last state, that's why I suggest to launch Cuemix FX and *mute all Cuemix FX masters*
This makes sure, no additional routing is going on for this test.

Klaus

Klaus,
Magic Dave has explained to me that CueMix is active even if it isn't launched. That is, whatever state it was last Quit in, the hardware remains configured thusly.

Now it is possible that the Magic Dave quote I'm going to add below this line is not germane to your situation, because, as you pointed out, you're Firewire, not PCI. But it still may apply:

CueMix is completely independent from DP. You have CueMix software which allows you to set up and control the mix on the PCI card. Once that mix is set up, you can quit the CueMix software and the card stays in that mix setup until you change it. Yes, the computer has to be running in order for CueMix to work. No, DP does not need to be running in order for CueMix to work.

If this were the case, your fader settings in CueMix may be causing the proportional disparity between your input and playback meter readings, even if CueMix is not launched.

[Klaus]

Yes, the Cuemix master was adding to the signal. When muted, the results are the same as yours -- 2:1.

Thank you for confirming bayswater !

Hope MotU will fix it in Version 7

Best

Klaus

[tommymandel]

Unless CueMix has to be last set with faders at 1/2, in order to 'equalize' input/output to what you expect the behaviour to be?

(in other words, i'm curious as to what adjustment does have to be made in CueMix, for the levels to match...)

[Klaus]

What levels to match ?
I am talking about DP hardware playthru *without* anything else...
?

Klaus

[tommymandel]

All you've established, it seems to me, is that CueMix has to be configured a certain way to make the fader levels act in a 1:1 proportional relationship. You've only tried muting the faders in CueMix, or putting them all the way up. Or possibly in some third position.

I was only saying that there may be some other, as yet untried positions to leave the faders in in CueMix, that will reestablish the 1:1 proportion that you guys say is lacking.

What am I missing?

other question: did I understand correctly that this only occurs in 896 systems, and not in other firewire systems, like 828? And only in MkIII's?

[tommymandel]

And what really doesn't make sense to me, is that the faders in DP's mixer window do not affect the record signal at all, and it seems to me that you are expecting them to.