mixing rock bass guitar

Shogun Assassin · Post by **Shogun Assassin** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:33 am

i have been recording some bass guitar the past day or two, and i'm having trouble locking in the audio. it tends to bounce around everywhere as many basses do. i know i can compress it and eq it, but i was wondering if anyone else had a few tips as far as mixing bass guitar for rock and metal?

it's a Fender P with a SD quarter pounder if that helps. the signal and recording is good, but when i start to compress it or level it, it seems like the sound gets too much color from the plug ins.

FutureLegends · Post by **FutureLegends** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:13 pm

Get less colouring plugs?

Snideiness aside, bass is what I find the hardest to balance as well. Well actually both drums and bass. Everything else I've learnt to get really good, almost pro, quality in my mixes.
But rock mixes are the ones I have to most trouble with. And ironically what I end up recording the most.

One thing that seems to be true is that it's less low end than you would expect in the bass in those kinds of genres.

I recently was given multitracks (or stems rather) of Dio's Holy Diver. Very interesting to be able to listen to the different instruments individually. Now, that is a mighty old song and today's sound differ. But the sound of modern rock/metal is matbe the worst I know.

Just some thoughts... don't take it as gospel, I'm marely someone trying to learn the craft myself.

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:22 pm

Get the high mids out of the mix. Light compression. Use a sweep eq around 100 Hz till you find the sweet spot.

Roll off the lows on the guitars.

Get the bass drum out of the way. Give the bass its own space.

It can be done. Listen to a hundred different recordings - especially Queen.

Shogun Assassin · Post by **Shogun Assassin** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:43 pm

thanks for the ideas. i'm actually trying for that "classic" metal (Dio)/ rock (Queen) sound.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:36 am

I think Mike's suggestions will get you pretty far. I don't know the full context, of course, and whether you have a DI track, a miked cabinet track, or both. I suggest doing both in the future, if you're not doing so already. It's the best of both worlds in terms of timbre, articulation, and attack, and gives you more room for decisions in the mix.

As bass is my specialty, I have too many pointers to just pick a random few, but given your Queen comment I think Mike's concise list will get you in the right frame of mind and workflow for focusing on the sound that you want. Once you are more confident with HOW to mix bass, I may make some specific plug-ins (and settings) recommendations.

Although I hate Ampeg amps, if I'm going for a vintage sound, I usually use AmpliTube to add a bit of Ampeg taste to the track. In that context, it works wonders for the mix, in terms of how the bass sits with the drums and the guitar. The main choices are SVT-4, SVT-Classic, B-15R and BA-500, and they all have distinctive sounds. I judge by the song more than the genre, but some apply "rules" as to when to use each head. All mix quite easily.

John Deacon used Hi-Watt bass amplification for much of the 70's. I've actually never seen their bass amps in person, but of course love their guitar amps thanks to Pete Townshend. Deacon combines DI with close-miking the cabinet and usually uses a P-bass in the studio.

Shogun Assassin · Post by **Shogun Assassin** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:13 am

mhschmieder wrote: Once you are more confident with HOW to mix bass, I may make some specific plug-ins (and settings) recommendations.

I'll definitely be hitting you up for that later. thanks again.

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:06 pm

My secret outboard weapon of choice for stubborn bass tracks:

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/rbi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is meant as a DI and I've used it that way, but I also have found it useful as a piece of outboard gear to add some bass goodness to nasty bass tracks.

Phil

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:04 am

> Although I hate Ampeg amps,<

Blasphemy!

Actually, my secret weapon is that I usually used my '60s Showman blackface - 85W of pure Fender tube goodness.

FutureLegends · Post by **FutureLegends** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:59 pm

Phil O wrote:My secret outboard weapon of choice for stubborn bass tracks:
http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/rbi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is meant as a DI and I've used it that way, but I also have found it useful as a piece of outboard gear to add some bass goodness to nasty bass tracks.
Phil

Damn, I could use one of those. Just bought a cheapo electric upright and I think it's gonna take some outboard things like that before I can get the sound right. And I'm not looking to make it sound exactly like an acoustic upright. Hmmm... There's always a new gizmo to break your bank account balance

FutureLegends · Post by **FutureLegends** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:06 pm

mhschmieder wrote:Although I hate Ampeg amps, if I'm going for a vintage sound, I usually use AmpliTube to add a bit of Ampeg taste to the track.

I can't say I'm a fan of Ampeg, have only used two different ones ever. But I have the small cheap BA115 and I've gotten some really good recordings out of it. Usually mic'd with a Golden Age R1 cheap ribbon mic into my LA610.
The BA115's tweeter makes a horrible hiss that drives me nuts but it's usually no problem when recording but just being next to it when it's quiet. Gah.

To get back to ways to get it right after recording though... I usually throw some of Massey's free 'Tapehead' plug on the bass track. That adds character though.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:33 am

I hesitate to recommend this to a beginner, due to the cost, but a month or so ago, I evaluated the Sonnox (Sony Oxford) plug-in suite, and found the Inflator plug-in to be the perfect ticket on the bass mix buss. What I mean is after blending the DI and mic/cabinet signal, it works really well to help the bass sit even better in the mix. It's quite subtle (the way I use it, at least), but does something "different" than a leveler, limiter, or compressor.

The key is that this plug is applied AFTER the individual bass tracks have already been properly produced for good EQ and leveling.

It depends on the source and the context, but I often use MOTU's Leveler or the new T-Racks LA-2A emulation (my Komplete 8 package hasn't arrived yet so I can't yet try theirs), AFTER some light compression. Only the DI track, as amped signals are by definition compressed (unless using a really crappy budget bass amp that doesn't have any built-in limiting).

fullertime · Post by **fullertime** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:03 am

I have had the same problem in the past but the solution I stumbled across was the CLA-Artist Series Bass Plugin from waves. While I'm not a huge fan of Waves, this plugin suite is freaking amazing! Plus, Chris Lord-Alge definitely knows how to treat bass:)

It's simple and effective... And as of recently.... Fairly cheap. When I bought it, it cost about $700 for the package but not I think waves has them individually for around $80...

You can download a 30-day demo if you have iLok.

Give it a whirl... I use it on every single bass track now:) I can't live without it. Not sure how it works, but it does!

Peace
Fuller

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:12 am

Regarding compression, I use just enough. How I determine this is easy: I lower the volume in the mix until I hear some notes but do not hear others. I then add just enough compression to bring out most of the notes at a minimum volume (don't go for all - it will be way too much). Then I bring up the level till it sits the way I want.

With some of my basses, I used very little; my Jazz Bass required more.

I never compressed my upright basses as it made them sound unnatural nor did I ever record with a pickup. I did keep one strung with gut and had Spirocores on my 5 string. A ribbon mic was all I ever used on those.

I love ribbons on bass and bass cabinets.

FutureLegends · Post by **FutureLegends** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:04 pm

mikehalloran wrote:I love ribbons on bass and bass cabinets.

I love ribbon mics on almost everything! In these digital times they give you that elusive 'warmth' like nothing else...

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:38 pm

I like ribbons so much on everything I've tried them on so far, that I have deferred all non-ribbon mic purchases indefinitely (Earthworks, Sennheiser MD441, Neumann TLM series, and other boutique mics that I THOUGHT I was going to buy this year).

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