Stupid Question - Automation Follows Soundbite?

[Mr. Quimper]

I've been doing sound design for a video where the picture editor and director don't understand the concept of "picture lock". Normally, I do post work in Pro Tools and music work in DP, but thought I'd do it all in DP this time. It proved to be a smart move, as they have been cutting on Final Cut and I've been able to make use of DP's fantastic Import Final Cut XML feature to help me reconform the audio tracks. One hurdle I've encountered is that each time I have to move a large group of regions, I am forced to go through 3 different track views, selecting all the regions 3 times for soundbites, volume, and pan, just so that all the automation (from my pre-mixing) follows the soundbites as they're being moved. Given the thoughtfulness to a post workflow that the XML feature demonstrates, I would be surprised if there's no option to have automation automatically follow a soundbite. Pro Tools behaves this way, and it would be wonderful if I didn't have to go through this 3 step process every time I have to move regions to accommodate a new picture edit.

Any help or insights would be appreciated.

[Dan Worley]

It all depends on how you select things. If you use the Pointer Tool to select a soundbite (an event) with a single click, you need to then choose "Set To Selection Bounds" from the Selection Tab drop-down menu to make that selection time-based (a region). I use that constantly and wish there were a key command for it.

Or drag the Crosshair (below the middle of the soundbite) or the Time Ruler's cursor or the Cursor Tool, or type in the selection in the Selection Tab. Any of those selection methods are time-based and you can move everything selected in that region, as long as they're not hidden by the view filter.

There are so many methods to make selections that I can't list them all.
You just have to figure out what works best for you.

After selection, don't forget about Snip and Shift and all those good things. Great time savers.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[Shooshie]

I've never used this feature, so I do not know how it works. Are you saying that it's a layer in the Sequence Editor? So you select the layer, then switch to automation and select that, etc.?

If that's the case, it's doing event selections where you want range selections. There are some things you can try.

1) Go to Preferences/Editing/Tools and set the Cursor Mode to Range Selections Only. See if it will now select everything when you choose what you want. A potential drawback is that whereas you may be accustomed to clicking on a soundbite to select the whole thing, now you might have to select the entire soundbite yourself.

2) There is a method of converting event selections to range selections. It basically involve moving an event selection up a track, then back down again. In moving to another track it selects the range of the events you have selected rather than individual events, since those events would be different in the other track. That collects all events in the track. I use this trick dozens of times a session, and it's super easy once you learn it, but I've been told that it's too complicated by a few people. It's just complicated to look at and set up. Once you've set the commands for it, it takes a fraction of a second to perform. To read my tutorial on setting up and using this method, read about it here in the Tips Sheet, page 2.

Should work for collecting automation points with audio.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

It all depends on how you select things. If you use the Pointer Tool to select a soundbite (an event) with a single click, you need to then choose "Set To Selection Bounds" from the Selection Tab drop-down menu to make that selection time-based (a region). I use that constantly and wish there were a key command for it.

Dan, you might try the method I mentioned in the post above. It feels like a work-around, but it's faster than the menu by far. The only caveat is that there must be a track above or below the selection, and it must be visible in the edit window you're using (not hidden). I've used this so much that to me it feels like a feature in DP. It's just second nature for me to click option-shift-up arrow, down-arrow. Of course, that won't work for you until you set up the commands as in the tutorial. Then there are two more commands for selecting those automation points that lie just outside the notes or soundbites.

I think my tutorial may be intimidating or something. I haven't heard of many people wanting to try it. If they were dealing with the control points that I'm dealing with, they'd be begging for it. You know, it would be so EASY if MOTU would just make that a command with key bindings. No reason not to. We should start writing them and asking for that. It would make my whole method unnecessary, and greatly simplify switching from event to range selections. In fact, they should toggle it back and forth or give us two commands -- one for each way.

Just a thought…

Shooshie

[Mr. Quimper]

Aha! Thanks, Dan. I never noticed that tiny menu before. "Set to Selection Bounds" did the trick. Even though I've used DP in tandem with PT since 2006 there's still so much about the program I don't know - it's just so deep compared with its competitors.

Thanks for the help.

[Mr. Quimper]

I've never used this feature, so I do not know how it works. Are you saying that it's a layer in the Sequence Editor? So you select the layer, then switch to automation and select that, etc.?

If you mean the XML import, it places a layer of 'markers' of a sort delineating the start and end points of every picture edit as defined in the Final Cut session. You are given a list of changes - upon comparing one Final Cut session to another - that you can click on to instantly jump to where that change would be in your audio session: the boundaries of the marked off selections allow you to easily snap to their boundaries when moving soundbites, and allow you to quickly find where you need to cut your audio if need be. It's quite handy, but it doesn't really have to do with what I was talking about: it could have been any situation where moving groups of soundbites is needed: I simply wanted to bring along the automation data behind the soundbites as I moved them as just selecting the soundbites had been leaving the automation data behind.

[Mr. Quimper]

1) Go to Preferences/Editing/Tools and set the Cursor Mode to Range Selections Only. See if it will now select everything when you choose what you want. A potential drawback is that whereas you may be accustomed to clicking on a soundbite to select the whole thing, now you might have to select the entire soundbite yourself.

I'll have to try that as well - does sound faster.

Thanks.

[Shooshie]

1) Go to Preferences/Editing/Tools and set the Cursor Mode to Range Selections Only. See if it will now select everything when you choose what you want. A potential drawback is that whereas you may be accustomed to clicking on a soundbite to select the whole thing, now you might have to select the entire soundbite yourself.

I'll have to try that as well - does sound faster.

Thanks.

But there are times when forcing a range selection just isn't what you want. I really recommend option #2. It always works, and you don't have to give up event selection to use it. It's not that hard to add some commands to the list, and the speed is great

Shoosh

[Dan Worley]

It all depends on how you select things. If you use the Pointer Tool to select a soundbite (an event) with a single click, you need to then choose "Set To Selection Bounds" from the Selection Tab drop-down menu to make that selection time-based (a region). I use that constantly and wish there were a key command for it.

Dan, you might try the method I mentioned in the post above. It feels like a work-around, but it's faster than the menu by far. The only caveat is that there must be a track above or below the selection, and it must be visible in the edit window you're using (not hidden). I've used this so much that to me it feels like a feature in DP. It's just second nature for me to click option-shift-up arrow, down-arrow. Of course, that won't work for you until you set up the commands as in the tutorial. Then there are two more commands for selecting those automation points that lie just outside the notes or soundbites.

I think my tutorial may be intimidating or something. I haven't heard of many people wanting to try it. If they were dealing with the control points that I'm dealing with, they'd be begging for it. You know, it would be so EASY if MOTU would just make that a command with key bindings. No reason not to. We should start writing them and asking for that. It would make my whole method unnecessary, and greatly simplify switching from event to range selections. In fact, they should toggle it back and forth or give us two commands -- one for each way.

Just a thought…

Shooshie

Wow! That's killer!

Move selection up/down with Option Shift up/down arrow (or vice versa) and it goes from an Event selection to a Range selection. I never would have thought of that. That's extremely clever and much more convenient than going to the drop-down. Way to go, Shoosh! Now I just need to get this into my kinetic memory.

Thanks!

It's always baffled me why MOTU didn't assign a key command to "Set To Selection Bounds." I look for it in every update or upgrade. I'm pretty sure I've requested that from them in the past, but I will gladly do so again. I hope others do the same.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[daniel.sneed]

I'm not sure to see the real point discussed here, for I don't use FCP.
But, this little old trick may help, though:
Inside DP, pressing and holding "i", turns pointer selection into time selection. As soon as "i" is released, selection type goes back to pointer.
I get much use of this little one.

[jkramlofsky]

It all depends on how you select things. If you use the Pointer Tool to select a soundbite (an event) with a single click, you need to then choose "Set To Selection Bounds" from the Selection Tab drop-down menu to make that selection time-based (a region). I use that constantly and wish there were a key command for it.

Or drag the Crosshair (below the middle of the soundbite) or the Time Ruler's cursor or the Cursor Tool, or type in the selection in the Selection Tab. Any of those selection methods are time-based and you can move everything selected in that region, as long as they're not hidden by the view filter.

There are so many methods to make selections that I can't list them all.
You just have to figure out what works best for you.

After selection, don't forget about Snip and Shift and all those good things. Great time savers.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

Hi Dan,

actually there is a key command. It's just named differently. You will find it under "Set Memory to Selection". Et voilà.

Greats

[Shooshie]

Hi Dan,

actually there is a key command. It's just named differently. You will find it under "Set Memory to Selection". Et voilà.

Greats

I don't think that does the same thing. One could make it work by using two commands. First, set memory to selection. On my computer, that command is CONTROL-OPTION-SHIFT-C. Next click the command for setting the selection to what is in memory. For me that is CONTROL-OPTION-COMMAND-SHIFT-S. Type them both, and you will get a range selection where there was originally an event selection. The downside is that you will lose whatever you had in memory before.

The method I use doesn't lose any previous settings, plus it is a little faster for some reason. There's little reason to use anything else, really, until MOTU gives us a direct command for switching events to range selections. That is, unless there's a command out there hiding from us right now. You never know with DP.

Shooshie

[Dan Worley]

It all depends on how you select things. If you use the Pointer Tool to select a soundbite (an event) with a single click, you need to then choose "Set To Selection Bounds" from the Selection Tab drop-down menu to make that selection time-based (a region). I use that constantly and wish there were a key command for it.

Or drag the Crosshair (below the middle of the soundbite) or the Time Ruler's cursor or the Cursor Tool, or type in the selection in the Selection Tab. Any of those selection methods are time-based and you can move everything selected in that region, as long as they're not hidden by the view filter.

There are so many methods to make selections that I can't list them all.
You just have to figure out what works best for you.

After selection, don't forget about Snip and Shift and all those good things. Great time savers.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

Hi Dan,

actually there is a key command. It's just named differently. You will find it under "Set Memory to Selection". Et voilà.

Greats

Thanks, but I think I have been down that road before and it's not the same thing. I want to change the selection from an Event to a Range, not change the memory.

Just to explain:

Select one measure. Notice how it reads in the Selection tab: 1|1|000 to 2|1|000 (for example). Now single-click on any soundbite with the pointer tool. The selection range does not change, it still reads 1|1|000 to 2|1|000, no matter where the soundbite is.

Now go to the Selection tab drop-down and select "Set to Selection Bounds." Now the selection range is changed to the boundaries (edges) of the soundbite (or soundbites if you have multiples selected).

Shooshie's trick does the same thing only with key commands. Single click on a soundbite and then hit Option Shift Arrow up and then Arrow down (or vice versa). There are some caveats to this that he explained in his post above.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[jkramlofsky]

It all depends on how you select things. If you use the Pointer Tool to select a soundbite (an event) with a single click, you need to then choose "Set To Selection Bounds" from the Selection Tab drop-down menu to make that selection time-based (a region). I use that constantly and wish there were a key command for it.

Or drag the Crosshair (below the middle of the soundbite) or the Time Ruler's cursor or the Cursor Tool, or type in the selection in the Selection Tab. Any of those selection methods are time-based and you can move everything selected in that region, as long as they're not hidden by the view filter.

There are so many methods to make selections that I can't list them all.
You just have to figure out what works best for you.

After selection, don't forget about Snip and Shift and all those good things. Great time savers.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

Hi Dan,

actually there is a key command. It's just named differently. You will find it under "Set Memory to Selection". Et voilà.

Greats

Thanks, but I think I have been down that road before and it's not the same thing. I want to change the selection from an Event to a Range, not change the memory.

Just to explain:

Select one measure. Notice how it reads in the Selection tab: 1|1|000 to 2|1|000 (for example). Now single-click on any soundbite with the pointer tool. The selection range does not change, it still reads 1|1|000 to 2|1|000, no matter where the soundbite is.

Now go to the Selection tab drop-down and select "Set to Selection Bounds." Now the selection range is changed to the boundaries (edges) of the soundbite (or soundbites if you have multiples selected).

Shooshie's trick does the same thing only with key commands. Single click on a soundbite and then hit Option Shift Arrow up and then Arrow down (or vice versa). There are some caveats to this that he explained in his post above.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

Well I must admit that I haven't checked if all automation data is selected by using this command, but it definitely takes care of the "Set To Selection Bounds" from the Selection Tab drop-down menu. I have to check the automation part when I get to it.

Cheers

[jkramlofsky]

Ok. I just did a quick check and as far as I can tell it works. All automation data is selected and therefore also moved with the soundbite to its new location. If you experience a different behaviour let me know.