MOTU tech support - does this bother anyone else?

jr213 · Post by **jr213** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:17 am

Below is my correspondence with MOTU Tech Support. I am quite offended and don't know how to respond. In case you don't feel like reading it all, basically, I tried to tell them somethings wrong and they responded with: "no, it isn't. It's been like that all along!" I have never had a beef with MOTU quite like I do now. I'm at a loss for words, really.

On Aug 24, 2005, at 5:14 PM, J.R. Taylor wrote:

I don't have my DP serial number handy, but I'm using 4.6.
The problem is that if there are Background Tasks running, DP will not play without CPU spikes (and therefore clicks & pops). Is this a bug with 4.6? I didn't experience this in 4.52.

J.R. Taylor
Austin, TX
================
On Aug 30, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Motu Technical Support wrote:
Hi,

The spikes occur due to the processor being in use. Background processing is fairly CPU intensive and I would recommend turning it off if you need to conserve CPU power.

If you go into your Preferences in DP, make sure you turn off the Beat Detection feature in the Background Processing section. Additionally, set the Analysis feature in the same section to only analyze when needed. Check your buffers and studio settings and make sure that you have enough voices set and a suitable buffer size. DP might be analyzing the files for beats which may be causing the spikes. If you have a G5 or a G4 laptop then go into the System Prefs in OS X and make sure your Processor is set to Highest under the Energy section.

Rob
MOTU Tech
================
On Aug 31, 2005, at 9:59 AM, J.R. Taylor wrote:

I did not experience this in 4.52 on my Dual 867 G4. Now, in 4.6 on my Dual 2.0 G5, it is a problem. When I record a take of drums, I have to wait for the files to be analyzed before I can listen back to them or record another take. Otherwise, trouble ensues. Again, I did not have these problems in 4.52.

J.R.
================
On Aug 31, 2005, at 10:21 AM, Motu Technical Support wrote:

So turn off the background processing like I advised in the earlier email. There are a number of a additional features in DP4.6 that requires analysis such as the Pitch function.

Rob
MOTU Tech
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On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:50 AM, J.R. Taylor wrote:

I thought Background Processing was supposed to take a back seat to Audio Recording/Playback. Can I just turn off Pitch detection, and not all BP? That's the only new feature pertaining to BP, right? Either way, this looks like a bug that needs to be fixed, don't you think? Any BP tasks should not affect the playback or recording of audio, like it has been up until 4.6. Rob, I appreciate your patience in helping me address my problem. Thanks.

J.R.
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On Sep 1, 2005, at 10:04 AM, Motu Technical Support wrote:

Pitch uses BP. Turning off BP will result in no analysis. Background processing will still run even during recording. This is the way BP works and has worked since it was introduced. We are always looking for ways to make BP more efficient so thank you for your patience.

Rob
MOTU Tech
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On Sep 1, 2005, at 11:41 AM, J.R. Taylor wrote:

So what I gather, based on your information, is that the addition of Pitch Automation in 4.6 has impaired Background Processing in DP. Has this become an official "bug report?"

J.R.
================
On Sep 1, 2005, at 10:43 AM, Motu Technical Support wrote:

This is NOT a bug. It is the way the system operates.

Rob
MOTU Tech

Studio615 · Post by **Studio615** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:29 am

Unbelieveable. Such arrogance. I don't know what they are thinking with this, it should be something we launch when WE want the feature to work. Enabling this by default is probably the most stupid idea I have ever heard. Motu are you listening? It is a bug, or an idea that doesn't work. Fix it, because the "feature" sucks.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:24 am

Pitch/background analysis works fine for me.
However I certainly agree that recording and playback need to be
priority number one.
I would imagine that some sort of file analysis is needed for pitch
automation to work properly though.
I'm fairly certain Melodyne has to "analyze files" before being able to
pitch correct them.
If you bypass pitch detection per track, does this improve CPU efficiency
I wonder?
For background processing I check off "wait until DSP analysis is needed"
so the CPU only appears to be chugging away when I need pitch automation.
I've also setup a template with pitch detection bypassed on every track,
and "wait until DSP analysis is needed" pref set.
It appears to help CPU usage a bit.

I dunno..just spitballing..
good luck

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:32 am

Yes, I would prefer that all prefs for special DP features be normally OFF and include please an off pref for DCPUM.

Special features should remain off until you try to use it, then a plackard should apear to ask if you would like to turn it on and you would answer yes or no. After you close DP it would be nice to see all special features turned off again. That's my feedback on the subject.

This would be an "AUTO OFF" configuration selection in prefs for each feature.

also, the MOTU guy responded properly IMO.

Thanks

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:36 am

Studio615 wrote:Unbelieveable. Such arrogance. I don't know what they are thinking with this, it should be something we launch when WE want the feature to work. Enabling this by default is probably the most stupid idea I have ever heard. Motu are you listening? It is a bug, or an idea that doesn't work. Fix it, because the "feature" sucks.

I don't think he was being arrogant. He answered your questions, and he continued to talk with you. He told you the facts: the system was designed that way; it's not a bug. And he said they're working on making it more efficient. He did everything but tell you when it would be finished, and that's something he doesn't know. He admitted that things aren't ideal. But it's not something that can't be worked around. It's not like it brings DP to a grinding halt. (ok... a little tiny squeaking pause, maybe...

)

Shooshie

jr213 · Post by **jr213** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:44 am

You guys are missing the big point:

Background Processing worked fine before.
Now it doesn't.

I have always left it on and it has not interfered with my sessions.
Now I have to wait for it. Does that not sound like a bug?

I don't want to just turn BP off because I like not having to wait later for Beat Detection. And besides, that's not the point (see above).

And shooshie, it basically DOES bring it to a halt when i have to wait for BP tasks to finish before i can playback audio.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:48 am

I've had fairly large sessions and left background processing on
and find the wait is maybe a few seconds at best (when opening the
project) non-existent when recording a file.
I've also had no CPU spikes associated with BP processing
when actually playing a session while BP is active.

jr213 · Post by **jr213** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:56 am

sdfalk wrote:I've also had no CPU spikes associated with BP processing
when actually playing a session while BP is active.

Now this is potentially useful information. You don't have spike problems, but I do. That says something there. I don't know what, but it's better than getting blown off by tech support. I would expect them to work with me on why I'm getting spikes, if they think I shouldn't be. But Rob didn't seem to think so.

dave pine · Post by **dave pine** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:59 pm

pain in the -back- ground processing also spikes my g-5 and my g-4, no it never used to before 4.6, it should now be renamed foreground processing.

jr213 · Post by **jr213** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:17 pm

dave pine wrote:it should now be renamed foreground processing.

I agree completely. Now if we can only somehow get MOTU to acknowledge it.

Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:04 pm

I must agree with Shooshie !!!!! I do not read him as being arogant ....
I have upgraded to 4.6 while ago and I have had spikes ounce in a while but found that it was some plugins that created it ...
Remember that doing support remotly and thru email is very difficult ...
It is very easy to go in a bad direction ....
I know that it is very frustrating sometime ....
Aramis

jr213 · Post by **jr213** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:24 pm

Aramis wrote:I must agree with Shooshie !!!!! I do not read him as being arogant ....

Okay, let's agree for the moment that he's not being arrogant and review the facts.

*BP tasks cause spikes in 4.6.
*BP tasks did not cause spikes in 4.52 and earlier.

What do you make of it? No change? Everything the same as it has always been?

BTW, this happens with no plugins running.

Johneecatt · Post by **Johneecatt** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:53 pm

I recently had an 'issue' with the drum editor dropping notes/beats when the pencil tool or the paintbrush tool is used. So, I called tech support, and the tech said he couldn't reproduce it, so (in his words), "Maybe you just don't know how to work the software." and, "I've never heard of this before".

So I e-mailed tech support, and their reply was - I can't reproduce it, can you send me your files - which I did as well as links to threads of others having the same problem. Two weeks later he replied, "Oh, I see. I will forward this along to the developers." And I never ever got a reply (this was months ago.

I e-mailed the tech a few weeks ago to ask if there was any word from the developers. To which he replied,

Hi John, thanks for the email. I believe we are still looking into
this. Please let me know if there's anything else I can do.

Peter
MOTU Tech Support

...oh, well........

jr213 · Post by **jr213** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:58 pm

Johneecatt wrote:Two weeks later he replied, "Oh, I see. I will forward this along to the developers." And I never ever got a reply (this was months ago.

At least you got that. Rather than "we haven't changed the drum editor - it works like it always has."

Spikey Horse · Post by **Spikey Horse** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:51 pm

jr213 I totally see where you're coming from on this.

I have had a similar experience using BFD. I was trying to bounce a MIDI track to audio via BFD but I kept getting clicks and pops *in the same place* every time I tried to bounce! - it drove me crazy until I eventually unchecked one of the automatic analysis options (which seemed to have switched itself on somehow) and then it dissappeared.

I think you're right: background should mean background!....if it's not true background then please make us wait for it with a progress bar so we don't accidently get clicks in our audio (which we might not pick up straight away if we're putting the kettle on during a bounce etc).

Regarding pitch BP - so is it on or off? Provided 'wait until analysis is needed' is set in BP prefs I thought pitch analysis was supposed to only kick in when you selected 'pitch' for editing on a particular track...?

There's no better way to take the 'bounce' out of bouncing than straining to hear little clicks all the time...