MOTU REALLY needs a demo version

[Shooshie]

Here's the deal about video tutorials (I may repeat myself a little from earlier posts): they take too much time to make. But there is no better way to show someone how to use DP. Videos rock! Sometimes I see myself doing a little trick that is SO FAST, and I think "I should tell people about that so they can save time, too." Then I try to write it down, and I realize that the only reason I can do that is because I set up a bunch of commands first, and I've got my windows placed thus & so… pretty soon it takes pages of explanation, and NOBODY wants to read that.

If I could make a video tutorial in the time it takes to run it, say it, and save the file, then hit "upload to YouTube," I'd do it. I've almost got that in Screenflow. If I could figure out an audio configuration that did not require me to change my audio driver config in DP (which takes minutes each time), I'd be posting tutorials left and right. It's faster than writing! Better, too.

But I have to interrupt my work, change the drivers for ScreenFlow, make about 4 takes till I finally get through it without saying "duhhhh…. er…. then you, wups… oops, sorry, shouldn't have done that… uh-oh… damn!" Perfection would be a little button that resides in the menubar, plus a desk mic that stays connected all the time, then I hit the button, do the bit, and stop. Then it does the rest. That would make it easy and worthwhile to do video tutorials all the time.

Then there's the issue of bandwidth. If we can use YouTube, then that solves the distribution problem. But uploading these things every day can be tiresome, too. And a lot of people really don't have the time to watch them. Reading is faster. You can skim down to the part where it says "press COMMAND-C" and you're done.

Piracy? Well, naturally I don't condone it, but I can't let that govern all my choices, either. We need to communicate to each other. If we don't, we'll have nothing. When someone needs to know how to do something, tell him/her. They'll let us know sooner or later if they're pirates, but we don't need to pre-empt that. Innocent until proven guilty.

Shooshie

[James Steele]

Strange to see you so pessimistic, James. Your own forum, here, has A LOT of "give give give". Probably more than almost any internet forum I've seen. I see a lot of "hey, I found a cool new trick", or "How about this..." posts. I've seen them, I've written a few myself, I think a lot of people around here have.

I'm not saying there aren't users like yourself and others who post here and offer help. A written post is much easier to do as well, thankfully.

Again, as I said, the video tutorials section was added to this board 18 months ago. I created a custom BBCode here for posting YouTube videos and made a post explaining how one could post tutorial videos. In a year and a half I estimate maybe four user videos have been posted. That's why I think we will not see a surge of user created video content any time soon. Please... I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[James Steele]

I've often wondered how long a company would last if all the business decisions concerning it were made by popular opinion on a forum of 500 or so members. Really. It would be interesting to watch... or not.

Or 34,000 members. Just sayin'...

[James Steele]

So I gotta disagree with ya James, to the point that sometimes it gets annoying how much "give give give" there is on the internet. I often think that people just want to talk, but never listen!

Talk is cheap. People love to "pontificate"... I agree there's no shortage of that. But ask someone to sit down and plan and put together a video tutorial demonstrating a concept or technique and that's actual WORK... not pontification. That doesn't happen as often.

I mention this because I had no shortage of people making suggestions for how I could spend MY time to benefit the user community. I would get PMs saying "Hey... you should add an XYZ section to the site and have this or that..." I would often turn tables and say "Wow! That sounds like a good idea! How about you tackle that and I'll post it on the site?" Invariably the response would be "Ummm... well gosh... you know I PERSONALLY am really busy you know... and... uh... well.... I was kinda, sorta hoping SOMEONE ELSE would do it for me!"

Yep... sorry... I'm pessimistic in terms of seeing we'll see a lot of content that takes more effort than pontificating at one's keyboard.

[bayswater]

I've often wondered how long a company would last if all the business decisions concerning it were made by popular opinion on a forum of 500 or so members. Really. It would be interesting to watch... or not.

Or 34,000 members. Just sayin'...

Wonder how long a company would last if none of the business decisions considered the opinions of 34,000 users? (wow!)

[melenko]

I stand by my assertion that overview videos and marketing towards new users is needed if DP is to thrive.

¿And what part of overview is missing here?:

http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Already said that MOTU's own site was their best advertising. My point was/is video overviews on youtube etc. would be a great marketing tool. look at any forum, people are more likely to watch a 5 minute video than scour through a great, but densely packed website like MOTU's own. Native Instruments for example have dozens of videos for all their respective products, and few do more than showcase the features.

I know that goes back to laziness, but IMO it's obvious that most people will choose Pro Tools because it's "pro", or Logic because Apple has laced it with magic unicorn dust! Something must be done!

I totally agree with your point of view M.Caravan. Users of DP like it or even love it, and want to share it with other people. It's quite difficult. No pirates/crackers won't prevent DP to evolve with a larger user's base. It would be a total benefit for MOTU and for us. History has told us that protectionism is a very bad concept.

[Prime Mover]

History has told us that protectionism is a very bad concept.

Before James and MLC jump on you for saying that, I'll just say, "let's not go there" and leave it at that. I think you'll find that to be a very controversial topic around here.

As paying customers, let's let MOTU worry about their level of protectionism. The only time to get upset is when it impacts us paying users. As it is, nothing MOTU, or anyone else is doing against piracy is negatively impacting paying customers in any meaningful way. Neither is anything that James is doing, he even made a place for tutorials (we were just blind to it). His reasoning for not hosting video is simply a question of bandwidth and work. And I totally respect that. If MOTU wanted to help him out with that, or start their own tutorial video site, that would be great, but for now, there's no ethical reason why noone's doing it, it's just simply a question of time and money.

However, I think MLC went too far, and is largely responsible for the preceding arguement. By implying that James and MOTU were against videos due to piracy, it set a lot of us off. Turns out, James even put up a place for them, we just were too stupid to notice. We all become trolls from time to time... even MLC, as it seems. So, we all made bad assumptions in this thread. There's been some good things that have come out of it, both James, Shooshie, and others have got me thinking about trying to give back to the community a little more, in writing at the very least.

Let the thread continue, but let's avoid making blanket ethical statements. We may even agree on these things, but this is neither the time or the place. Save it for when someone actually wrongs us or someone else.

[melenko]

History has told us that protectionism is a very bad concept.

Before James and MLC jump on you for saying that, I'll just say, "let's not go there" and leave it at that. I think you'll find that to be a very controversial topic around here.

As paying customers, let's let MOTU worry about their level of protectionism. The only time to get upset is when it impacts us paying users. As it is, nothing MOTU, or anyone else is doing against piracy is negatively impacting paying customers in any meaningful way. Neither is anything that James is doing, he even made a place for tutorials (we were just blind to it). His reasoning for not hosting video is simply a question of bandwidth and work. And I totally respect that. If MOTU wanted to help him out with that, or start their own tutorial video site, that would be great, but for now, there's no ethical reason why noone's doing it, it's just simply a question of time and money.

However, I think MLC went too far, and is largely responsible for the preceding arguement. By implying that James and MOTU were against videos due to piracy, it set a lot of us off. Turns out, James even put up a place for them, we just were too stupid to notice. We all become trolls from time to time... even MLC, as it seems. So, we all made bad assumptions in this thread. There's been some good things that have come out of it, both James, Shooshie, and others have got me thinking about trying to give back to the community a little more, in writing at the very least.

Let the thread continue, but let's avoid making blanket ethical statements. We may even agree on these things, but this is neither the time or the place. Save it for when someone actually wrongs us or someone else.

Even if I agree for the most of your reply, don't you feel it's a sort of moral lesson?
Don't have I the right to say that protectionism could be a dangerous concept?
I won't to debate it on a political way, that isn't my meaning. But in this case I think MOTU could reap more benefits to be more OPEN, and I don't mean to be lax. It's just an opinion, not a judgment...

[James Steele]

History has told us that protectionism is a very bad concept.

Before James and MLC jump on you for saying that, I'll just say, "let's not go there" and leave it at that. I think you'll find that to be a very controversial topic around here.

I wouldn't jump on anybody, but I think making blanket statements like that aren't always a good idea. It's easy to be smug and with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight make a statement that "protectionism" is a bad concept, but if you're a steel worker who loses his job because another country's product is subsidized, you don't see protectionism as inherently evil. The word "protectionism" belies the position of the person using it. I, on the other hand, I said I was for "fair trade"... that's different.

But back in the world of software, if you remove the profit incentive, whatever software remains will be crap... with rare exceptions of software produced by people who have the ability or temperament to simply give away their hard work without compensation. This applies to music as well.

[James Steele]

Don't have I the right to say that protectionism could be a dangerous concept?
I won't to debate it on a political way, that isn't my meaning. But in this case I think MOTU could reap more benefits to be more OPEN, and I don't mean to be lax. It's just an opinion, not a judgment...

You have a right to say anything. MOTU is the only entity in a position to determine what the benefits may or may not be.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

History has told us that protectionism is a very bad concept.

Before James and MLC jump on you for saying that, I'll just say, "let's not go there" and leave it at that.

Hey, thanks for trying to control the thread. Ain't gonna happen on your say so.

I think MLC went too far, and is largely responsible for the preceding arguement. By implying that James and MOTU were against videos due to piracy, it set a lot of us off.

You're in a fantasy world, my friend. I never implied that once. Don't believe everything you think.

We all become trolls from time to time... even MLC, as it seems.

Disagreeing with you or expressing an opposing opinion is now trolling? Again: You're in a fantasy world, my friend. Don't believe everything you think.

Let the thread continue, but let's avoid making blanket ethical statements.

Again: Hey, thanks for trying to control the thread. Ain't gonna happen on your say so.

[melenko]

The word "protectionism" belies the position of the person using it. If on the other hand said I was for "fair trade"... that's different.

I understand your meaning, and don't forget I'm not an english speaker, so I do my best.
"Protectionism" here in EU, and even in Belgium means, "We close the borders".
"More Open" stood in my reply, also. But effectively nobody here may decide for MOTU.
I thought I could express my meaning according to business, as I was a corporate manager. That's all.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

But effectively nobody here may decide for MOTU.

Actually, in a sense we ALL decide for MOTU by either buying their stuff or not. I would buy their stuff whether they make tutorials, or PDF manuals, or demos, or whatever.

[melenko]

That's right! You wrote it better than I.