MOTU REALLY needs a demo version

[Dan Worley]

I've often wondered how long a company would last if all the business decisions concerning it were made by popular opinion on a forum of 500 or so members. Really. It would be interesting to watch... or not.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[MIDI Life Crisis]

+1... Duh!

That would be like a studio changing their setup because a few clients didn't like it or a composer changing his/her style (assuming they have one, of course) because it simply wasn't "popular."

Not exactly the same thing, but in the end we follow the paths that make sense to us, and if we feel strongly about our direction, we keep at it regardless of popularity and trends. Granted, I don't go marketing my music (one of the fringe benefits of being an 'old guy' with 'a few years' in the trenches). Age definitely has it's benefits and I DON'T mean AARP! LOL!

[bayswater]

Age definitely has it's benefits and I DON'T mean AARP! LOL!

At least "arp" has some happy connotations. Here, we have CARP.

[Dan Worley]

Age definitely has it's benefits and I DON'T mean AARP! LOL!

Ha! I remember the first mailing I got from them. I freaked out and burned it! I still have refused to join.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[Dan Worley]

Age definitely has it's benefits and I DON'T mean AARP! LOL!

At least "arp" has some happy connotations. Here, we have CARP.

Ha! Well, the letters could have been arranged even worse. But sometimes that's a wonderful accomplishment for an old person.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Age definitely has it's benefits and I DON'T mean AARP! LOL!

Ha! I remember the first mailing I got from them. I freaked out and burned it! I still have refused to join.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

I finally gave in last week. Can't hide my age so I might as well get the discount. Now if only the dispensaries would give a discount...

[martian]

Consider this: if you are thinking about buying DP, and you don't know anyone with a working setup that is willing to let you play with it to your satisfaction, how do you decide? 1) buy it and write off the price if you don't like it, or 2) "borrow" a copy.
.

seems like a plausible scenario given that there is no demo

and the manual - piracy deterrant?

[martian]

and why did I buy live?

cos I got a free demo and got hooked.

[Prime Mover]

This just seems so bassakwards to me. In the professional motion graphic and editing field, just about every pro I talk to watches CreativeCow tutorials all the time, regardless of how advanced they are at the software. I'd consider myself a very advanced AfterEffects engineer, yet I still go there from time to time to check out new creative ways of using the software. The forums kind of suck, but when I talk with other professionals in person, I'm always hearing about how they really benefited from the tutorials.

Tutorials aren't JUST about "software for dummies (ie: pirates)", but new creative ideas, workflow adjustments, poweruser tricks. Just look at Shooshie. Every few months he comes out with a poweruser post about how to streamline workflow. His "tutorial" on spaces changed the way I use DP, and I know I'm not alone here. But the explanation took up about 3 typed pages, with many followup questions to clarify elements. That would have been a first-rate video tutorial.

Ya know, maybe one simple thing that would shut you guys up about the pirate thing is this: don't do tutorials for things you can get out of the manual verbatim. Maybe brand-new features in a new version that everyone missed, sure, but as long as tutorials are aimed at people who already have a good understanding of DP, I don't know how that would hurt.

Still... I don't think this sentiment of "MOTU isn't doing it, so my way must be right" makes any sense. There are hundreds of other software companies who ARE doing tutorials, and making a killing: Adobe and Apple for instance. So that just doesn't add up. It's not a corrilation, no, but it obviously doesn't prove that "tutorials lead to money loss" as you guys are suggesting...

Or maybe this isn't about money loss at all, maybe this is vindication against Piracy, regardless of the financial consiquences. Sorry, I have no respect for that. Fight piracy because it loses money.

[martian]

the fight against piracy -is like the war on drugs and prostitution.

does an Ilok stop it ? nope. ( obviously doesnt work against prostitution,,,,, )

does registration challenge response stop it. ( whats the password for my weed? err I forgot )

I dont say dont try - but it's the kind of attitude endemic here

if you dont want pirates then give a legitimate demo

oh yeah I forgot - I bought reason after getting the demo version too,,

( live, reason, audiofinder, soundgrinder, what else have I been sucked into)

actually this topic gets flogged to death every couple of years on here,.,,,

[MIDI Life Crisis]

The war against pirates isn't just for the companies. Pirates wouldn't exist if people didn't have your 'tude that "it can't be fixed so why bother."

It starts with a word many might want to add not only to their vocabulary but put into practice: integrity and it starts with YOU!

If people refuse to share and accept illegal copies IN ANY FORM (music, print, software, products) then piracy will end. Will the world always be filled with a-holes? Indeed! But that is not reason to cave in and have a defeatist 'tude, dude. You can be stronger than that.

If you don't want pirates, don't freakin' share ANY intellectual property. Period.

[James Steele]

Or maybe this isn't about money loss at all, maybe this is vindication against Piracy, regardless of the financial consiquences. Sorry, I have no respect for that. Fight piracy because it loses money.

Ooh boy... we *could* go to politics on this one. The whole idea of "vindication" despite being bad financial policy. There isn't much actual evidence to prove one's point either way. I don't have time to waste reading all of this, but:

1) Of course we don't support piracy. I think it's a bad thing. I don't see making a PDF manual available as something that would bring new users into the fold, thus I don't see it being harmful if MOTU continues their current policy.

2) As for as making tutorials, what incentive is there? It takes time and effort. The nature of the internet is take, take, take. In *many cases* the "takers" are urging the "givers" to do hours and hours of uncompensated work that they themselves would never dream of doing. The real obstacle to these tutorials existing is that there's no incentive for doing them. Because we're more "mature" around here, we don't see the need to bust our asses making tutorials simply for accolades on a user forum. Unless there's a financial incentive, it's hard to justify it. Maybe on another forum some 20-something would producer a tutorial so he could be BMOC (Big Man on Campus) on a forum and build a reputation, but it is a LOT of work.

3) Oh... and as far as a place for tutorials? There's been one for a long time on this board. Here: http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=27" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; It's been available since January 10, 2010 and in that time I think maybe three or four videos have been posted there.

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but the internet is a "take, take, take" sort of thing and very few people are going to expend valuable time and effort to create and upload tutorials. It would be great if MOTU had the resources to produce these as they do have a financial interest in this. True we have some remarkably giving users here on the board who I suspect would do some, but most people won't while bemoaning the lack of tutorials.

[Prime Mover]

Strange to see you so pessimistic, James. Your own forum, here, has A LOT of "give give give". Probably more than almost any internet forum I've seen. I see a lot of "hey, I found a cool new trick", or "How about this..." posts. I've seen them, I've written a few myself, I think a lot of people around here have. Granted, it's one of the things that makes this forum better than most (as much as I like the CreativeCow tutorials, their forum is VERY take take take).

However, I think there are a lot of people who like to do tutorials. Just go on YouTube for just about anything imaginable, I've watched everything from software development to fixing your car... today I just watched a "how to build a pipe organ" video!

People like to share their expertise. Call it arrogant, call it showing off, but it often benefits the rest of us. So I gotta disagree with ya James, to the point that sometimes it gets annoying how much "give give give" there is on the internet. I often think that people just want to talk, but never listen! That's far from the case here, but I think that's the difference between a troubleshooting board and a community.

I think we were all kind of blind and unaware of the fact that there was a tutorial page, I seriously didn't realize there was one! I'll have to check it out.

If there is one, I think it would be great for a lot of us to just do a quick tutorial showing off our individual workflows. There are so many different ways of working with DP. I love hearing about little tricks that people use. But at the same time, i know I have a few oddities myself that I've mentioned in the past that people have taken note of (mapping 1-2-3 to the memory/loop toggles to get instant loop regions). I think we all have little shortcuts that could benefit the community as a whole, I'd like to see some, and to share some.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Nothing is stopping anyone from doing a tutorial. If it's THAT important to you why don't YOU do some and then you can stop speculating on why there aren't more of them?

[Shooshie]

I've often wondered how long a company would last if all the business decisions concerning it were made by popular opinion on a forum of 500 or so members. Really. It would be interesting to watch... or not.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

You nailed it, my friend!

Shoosh