is Time Machine best BU option?

[GMT]

I'm setting up a new (used) macbook pro (6,2) (2x2.53, 4G). I've done a lot of reading, but among question that remain...

Is Time Machine the best option for backups? Some say CCC is good, some don't like TM, etc.

I bought a new 1G FW external drive for backups and/or TM. Ready to partition and am considering various options.

I have other external drives set up for VI or sample libraries, various redundancy backups, etc.

Thanks

[bayswater]

You should consider that eventually, TM will fill up a backup drive and then it will start to lose some older files to make space for newer files it needs to backup. With CCC, or SuperDuper (same functions as CCC, but with more usable GUIs etc), you will need to make sure that your backup drive has the space to hold all the files that need to be backed up, but if the options are set correctly, everything you back up will be retained indefinitely.

SuperDuper has never let me down, and the vendor support is good.
CCC will do the same things and is free, but needs more effort on your part.
I also used Silverkeeper, free from Lacie for a while, and it was fine.
I found Retrospect confusing, and the two times I went to restore lost files, it told me the backup was corrupt and could not be accessed.

[jjhp3]

supah dupah is the best...

John

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I wish people would be more careful in representing how Time Machine works. It will only delete files if you allow it to. You can save a lot of space on your Time Machine disk by not having it backup stuff that is only a DVD away (such as VI libraries that take up many GB of space. Just exclude them from the backup.

Time Machine DOES NOT duplicate every file every time it backs up. It saves CHANGES to files and as such actually is very conservative in terms of disk space. IOW, once you save a 60GB project and move on, Time Machine doesn't re-save that. Change one small aspect and only that small change is saved.

The advantages to Time Machine are far superior to cloning a drive. It saves every hour so you never loose more than an hour of work if you crash without having saved. Grabbing a deleted or restoring a corrupted file is a breeze, restoring an entire disk is very easy, and once you archive a project to a DVD or other removable media you can selectively delete all occurrences of that file(s) from the Time Machine backup. That just is not possible in a cloned scenario where you have what you saved at the time you saved it. Great for restoring the machine to where it was then, but not so good on restoring a machine to where it was 60 minutes ago.

Some people like to do both (clone and Time Machine). I've used Time Machine exclusively since moving to OS X Leopard and have had drives go bad. Time Machine restored to a new drive without a problem and with only a couple of clicks. I've also been able to restore 65GB movie scores with the click of a button (the director changed a few scenes a few months after the locked picture).

Once a Time machine disk approaches about 80% of capacity, I simply buy a new disk and place the old Time Machine backup in a safe place (off site like in a safe deposit box or storage unit). Only had to so that once (with a 500GB drive).

Currently my TIme Machine disk is on an external 800FW buss. I only turn it on when I'm scoring or doing some critical paper work, etc. but certainly at least once every few days.

The software is rock solid and replaces all other backup strategies for me. Did I mention it's free? (Or at least included with the Mac OS if you prefer to factor that into the cost of the backups.)

[Phil O]

I've toyed with the idea of using Time Machine, but I've never used it. I like the idea of backing up when I feel the need, and not leaving it to some automation. That's just me. A friend of mine was using TM, but has switched back to manual backups as well. I guess it depends on your work flow.

My system works something like this. I have a main boot drive where I keep OS, applications and plenty of room for VM use, etc. That drive is partitioned and a duplicate is kept on the second partition. The duplicate is where I test out software updates and such. My project files and VI libraries are on a second drive and a third drive is used for document backups. I backup projects and other documents simply by dragging them to drive 3. For long term backups and archiving I use both DVDs and external firewire enclosures. Any cloning I do is with Super Duper.

Phil

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Try it, you'll like it!



Sidenote: That is Jack Aaron in that old commercial. I worked with him when I was an Equity Assistant Stage Manager (apprentice) and sound op (back in 1978!). Funny how your past catches up with you.

[Phil O]

Back in the late 60's my mother had a restaurant in Provincetown. She had a contract with Act 4 Theatre for the actors' and staff's meals. Jack was one of those actors. I was still in high school at the time and bussed tables, but I met him, Al Pacino, and many others. Some made it big, some didn't. But I remember when Jack made that commercial and I was surprised to see his face on TV.

Phil

So anyway, you think TM is really worth it's weight, ehh?

[bayswater]

I wish people would be more careful in representing how Time Machine works. It will only delete files if you allow it to. You can save a lot of space on your Time Machine disk by not having it backup stuff that is only a DVD away (such as VI libraries that take up many GB of space. Just exclude them from the backup.

TM is meant as as "set it and forget it" application. Regardless of its efficiency, unattended, it will eventually run out of space. People need to realize that if they are using it to archive their files. When it first came out, a lot of people were very annoyed when they lost files.

A workable practise is to use TM for the convenience of accessing file history, and to create periodic image backups with SuperDuper. Both can be set to exclude large libraries that are static and easily restored from the original sources.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

WEll we have our own views on that. Not exactly set it and forget it if you don't want it to be, at least no more than using VI or plug presets are use 'as is.' It's all about how seriously you approach the software. How is a clone NOT backup and forget it? I don't want to be changing it's diapers every few days. In such a scenario, set and forget with TIme Machine (once you tweak it the way you want it) is welcome. I want to spend my time producing my music, not baby sitting a cloned drive. That's just me.

Hey Phil, what a coincidence you met Jack. I had to sit in as the Stage Manager one day (in an all star cast, BTW) when Jack got into a scuffle in Central park and couldn't perform. It was a terrifying experience (sitting in as stage manager, that is - I'm sure the scuffle was equally terrifying!)

Now seriously, how effen' small is this world, anyway? LOL!

[GMT]

Thanks for your input, guys. I've got a lot of info to digest as I'm moving from a G5 (now deceased) PPC OS4.11, DP4.6 to Intel OS6.6, DP7.21. Also, this is a laptop; I've already worked through the interface stuff (mult displays, FW chain, etc.) so now I need to work out the nuts and bolts of backups, installs, etc.

I'm going to read through some of the DP archived posts re installation. I have some other questions, so for clarity/neatness sake, I'll start another thread.

[rentadrummer]

Currently my TIme Machine disk is on an external 800FW buss. I only turn it on when I'm scoring or doing some critical paper work, etc. but certainly at least once every few days.

I used to leave my backup drive on all the time and when doing so TM worked well. Once I started to turn it off and back on for intermittent backups, TM began giving me problems. I looked at the files on the backup drive and discovered that it hadn't actually backed up any files for several weeks. It would go through the motions as if it was backing up, but wasn't doing anything. I wiped the drive and tried it again, and while at first it worked correctly, after a few weeks the same thing happened. I know that TM works flawlessly for many people, and that I could just leave the drive on, but I'm now more comfortable with CCC and manual backups, which I do without fail.

[mikehalloran]

I will never trust my files to manual backups again. My time is far more valuable than that. I figure I have lost around 30 hard drives since 1986 - two in the last two months.

Time Machine. Always on. I won't work any other way anymore.

CCC and SuperDuper! have their uses in my work but not for maintaining backups of critical data for my customers or myself.

[mikehalloran]

> I like the idea of backing up when I feel the need, and not leaving it to some automation.<

Damn, data's gone. I didn't feel I needed to back it up that day...

Automation is the point. It means knowing that worst case you lost the last hour.

> Once I started to turn it off and back on for intermittent backups, TM began giving me problems. I looked at the files on the backup drive and discovered that it hadn't actually backed up any files for several weeks.<

You should have seen the backup date in the Preferences Panel. It would have told you it hadn't backed up in a while.

Yep. When you turn off a backup drive and turn it back on, TM will not work again till you have re-booted te computer. Leave the backup drive on. You can get externals with smart power systems that only come to life when needed - the Newer MiniStack v3 performs this function for me. It goes to sleep when TM isn't running and never misses a backup.
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>TM will fill up a backup drive and then it will start to lose some older files to make space for newer files it needs to backup.<

That statement is not true. It replaces oldest versions of the files - completely different. You lost those on your main drive when you made the changes. If the file is on your drive, you will not lose it - delete a file and, eventually TM will delete the backup - could take years, though. The size of your TM drive relative to your main drive is the determining factor. With low power 2T drives now selling for $80 and 3T drives selling for $207, I just don't understand not using a reliable back up.
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Part of the confusion is that backing up files and archiving them are two different things. You want to archive files, direct copy, SD! and CCC are good. Backups, ideally, limit your losses - best would be no loss at all. TM gets it down to an hour or less.

SD and CCC are limited to how often you do it. If you archive at 6PM but hour HD fried at 5, that's 23 hours. May be ok for your projects but losing that much work could cost me thousands of dollars - or just be a minor annoyance depending on the day. No thanks.

[bayswater]

>TM will fill up a backup drive and then it will start to lose some older files to make space for newer files it needs to backup.<

That statement is not true. It replaces oldest versions of the files - completely different. You lost those on your main drive when you made the changes. If the file is on your drive, you will not lose it - delete a file and, eventually TM will delete the backup - could take years, though.

It perplexing that people keep saying it's not true, and then go on to explain exactly how it happens.