Audio Express. Is it me or ... ?

[jschunick]

I just bought an Audio Express and I am experiencing the same problem...

This is a BAD problem. There is HUGE potential for blowing up studio monitors because of this bug.

This is a USB SOUND INTERFACE - first and foremost. That means a person buying this device expects the interface to not only control the levels of the 4 inputs, but also the audio level being sent to it from the computer.

BUGS THAT MAY DESTROY YOUR EQUIPMENT:

- After a factory reset (hold in power and mix knobs), the main output level sits at MAXIMUM. Adjusting the output level in the CueMix FX software seems to do NOTHING AT ALL. One must manually adjust the knob on the front of the unit. The MUTE button seems to do nothing as well.

- In CueMix FX, anytime you select a different output for the headphones, the master level goes to MAXIMUM. **I ALMOST BLEW MY STUDIO MONITORS BECAUSE OF THIS BUG!***

- I will be posting more as time goes on because I am sure I will be running into more issues.

These bugs REALLY say something strong about MOTU's Quality Assurance dept. There is no way MOTU actually tested this unit properly, because if they did, these issues would not exist.

I will be contacting their technical service department tomorrow. I really hope they can fix this by...YESTERDAY...because I just spent $400 on a faulty product that almost blew $1000 worth of audio equipment.

[jschunick]

To go along with the 2nd bug above, you are unable to change the main output level after you change the headphones source....IT IS STUCK AT MAX UNTIL YOU DO A FACTORY RESET!!!


Also, I KNOW the card has capability of changing the output from the computer, because you can do it physically with the knob in the front. You cannot do it with the CueMix FX software, and you will most likely only be able to change that level if you keep most of the settings @ factory default. I say this, because things like simply setting a different headphones source will pretty much break the unit and possibly blow your equipment.

[katshinka]

- After a factory reset (hold in power and mix knobs), the main output level sits at MAXIMUM. Adjusting the output level in the CueMix FX software seems to do NOTHING AT ALL. One must manually adjust the knob on the front of the unit. The MUTE button seems to do nothing as well.

We do have exactly the same problem. In a way I'm reassured that my model is not faulty but on the other hand, quite angry.
I've been on the line with two (three if you count one of my techlinks) MOTU technicians, and none have been able to advise me. It seems none of them are in any way familiar with the AE. One of them was honest enough to admit it.

However, it was my understanding that CueMix main outputs controls the output of the Mix, and it would seem that, for nom, the sound from your computer is not part of it, so you cannot control your output like that.

To avoid blowing up your speakers, I suggest you set their input level to the minimum, if you can. That's what I did. This is only temporary though, as it is almost impossible to have the same levels on both monitors that way.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I've heard that it could be simple as a software or firmware update. Maybe not if the unit is designed to make the Mac produced audio inaccessible. Again, some people like that. Others... not so much.

[jschunick]

However, it was my understanding that CueMix main outputs controls the output of the Mix, and it would seem that, for nom, the sound from your computer is not part of it, so you cannot control your output like that.

This is not true. There is a specific option for including the computer's sound in the Mix output. In the FILE menu, select "Mix1 Return Includes Computer Output". This does not seem to do anything.

From the manual:

Mix1 Return Includes Computer

The Mix1 return includes computer output item in the
CueMix FX File menu refers to a feature that is available in
some, but not all, MOTU audio interface products.
Therefore, this menu item is grayed out if it is not supported
by your model.

The Mix1 return includes computer item refers to the Mix1
bus that the interface driver provides as an input to host
audio software. This input source delivers the output of
“MIX1” (the first mix bus of the on-board no-latency
monitor mixes in the interface hardware) back to your
computer. This input serves, for example, as a convenient
way for you to record the MIX1 monitor mix back into your
host audio software (for reference and archiving purposes).

When the Mix1 return includes computer menu item is
checked, any audio being sent from your audio software on
the computer to the same output as Mix1 will be included in
the Mix1 return bus. When it is uchecked, computer output
is excluded.
This menu item is essentially a pre/post switch for the
computer audio insert to the stream of audio going to Mix1’s
output pair (and also back to the computer)

[MIDI Life Crisis]

That's the best post yet in both threads about this issue. So we bought the cheap one... LOL!

[katshinka]

Here's what I've got on my manuel.

When checked, the Mix1 return includes computer Output File menu item causes audio being sent to the Main Outs (Mix1) from host software on the computer to be included in the mix1 1-2 return bus. This feature can be used to apply the audio analysis tool, such as the FFT display and oscilloscope, to computer audio.

Warning! when this option is enabled, it can cause feedback loops! In your host software, make sure that the stereo return bus is not routed back to the main outs.

This is coming from the CueMixFX chapter. The are some references in the rest of the manual, mainly with how to set up scoping. The other one is in the Audio Desk/Other Mac OS X applications chapter :

In your OS X host audio software audio input menus, you'll see an Audio Express input called Mix1 Return 1-2. This is a stereo feed from the Audio Express that matches its main outs (Mix 1). This can be used for example, to record a final stereo mix for reference and archiving inputs. [...]

It seems that's not possible using the AE. There's only the phones knob (when it works )

[katshinka]

Also tried contacting motu (again). Nothing conclusive yet. The guy told me that he'll take a look, as all those before him.
I am going back to the store tomorrow to test the sound with different monitors.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Slightly o/t, but how is the scoping? I was really interested in that.

[katshinka]

If you wish to scope audio outputs, send it to the AE main outs (Mix 1) and choose one ot both of the Mix1 returns from the Scope Channel Selections.

SCOPING HOST SOFTWARE AUDIO OUTPUT

If you want to scope audio output from your host software send your hosts's output to the main outs (Mix1), enable the Mix1 Return Includes Computer Output option, and choose one or both of the Mix1 returns from the Scope Channel Selection menus.

This is mainly for using the FFT, oscilloscope and other graphical measurement tools. This has no effect on the mix master track, at least on my side.

[jschunick]

OK! Updates!!

I was on the phone with MOTU technical support describing the issues we have gone over.

1. I guess it is NOT possible to control the output of your computer via CueMixFX. OK, fine not a bug...a feature...

2. I explained the bug about how switching the headphone source from factory default of Main Out to another output causes your main output volume level to go to MAX - and be stuck at MAX until you do a factory reset. He put me on hold and went to reproduce the issue. He was able to reproduce the issue no problem and told me the engineers will begin working on a fix right away.

For me, however, this is not good enough. This bug almost caused me to destroy my expensive studio monitors this weekend. I am going to be returning this unit - I will be hearing from a MOTU representative tomorrow.

EVERYONE WHO IS CONSIDERING BUYING THIS UNIT - DO NOT BUY THIS UNTIL THEY RELEASE A FIRMWARE/SOFTWARE FIX. THE BUG DESCRIBED ABOVE HAS A VERY GOOD CHANCE OF BLOWING YOUR STUDIO MONITORS.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

EVERYONE WHO IS CONSIDERING BUYING THIS UNIT - DO NOT BUY THIS UNTIL THEY RELEASE A FIRMWARE/SOFTWARE FIX. THE BUG DESCRIBED ABOVE HAS A VERY GOOD CHANCE OF BLOWING YOUR STUDIO MONITORS.

I think the members here are smart enough to make their own decisions. Blanket statements like that serve no purpose except to make you feel better about your particular plight. Finding a bug that MOTU has acknowledged and will fix doesn't warrant a blanket boycott. Just your personal boycott will do.

If you find a similarly priced alternative with as many features, please let us know.

[James Steele]

EVERYONE WHO IS CONSIDERING BUYING THIS UNIT - DO NOT BUY THIS UNTIL THEY RELEASE A FIRMWARE/SOFTWARE FIX. THE BUG DESCRIBED ABOVE HAS A VERY GOOD CHANCE OF BLOWING YOUR STUDIO MONITORS.

I think the members here are smart enough to make their own decisions. Blanket statements like that serve no purpose except to make you feel better about your particular plight. Finding a bug that MOTU has acknowledged and will fix doesn't warrant a blanket boycott. Just your personal boycott will do.

If you find a similarly priced alternative with as many features, please let us know.

Ditto. Some of us have monitor level controllers that would make this not so much of a problem. I don't care for using this board to call for boycotts of MOTU products.

[HCMarkus]

I know its not an option for everyone, but adding a monitor controller between the outputs of my 828mkII and monitors improved my user experience tremendously... no more reaching to tweeze the twiddly little volume knob. Plus multiple powerful headphone amps make tracking and cueing a breeze.

[katshinka]

a monitor controller between the outputs of my 828mkII and monitors improved my user experience tremendously

You're right, it is not an option (yet) !
But This will be my next purchase.

At least, I can work with the AE, if I pay extra attention avoiding the issue
with the phones assign.