dp7's convolution reverb vs. altiverb- comments?

rumble · Post by **rumble** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:56 am

how does it compare to altiverb?

has anyone created their own impulse responses and used them in dp?

what's the process of making them like?

according to an altiverb pdf you have to create 4 tracks to get a stereo verb after dropping it in their pre-processor.

is it the same for dp7?

thanks

DoctorOrbis · Post by **DoctorOrbis** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:01 am

rumble wrote: how does it compare to altiverb?

There are a lot of different opinions on that, and most of them boil down to user preferences. Search for "ProVerb" on this board and you'll find some food for thought.

rumble wrote: has anyone created their own impulse responses and used them in dp?

I have, but I wrote my own sweep generation and deconvolution software since PV doesn't provide this feature.

rumble wrote: what's the process of making them like?

Sweep-excitation gives the best results, but it is complicated. For an acoustic space, you set up a speaker where you would want to place a source, and a microphone pair where you would normally place ambient mics. For stereo-stereo, you need two sources and two mics, which results in four source-mic paths. You then play a sweep through each source separately and record the results as an audio file. Next, use deconvolution software to extract the response(s) from the recorded result(s). If you're mathematically inclined, search for papers by Farina as a starting point. Fokke van Saane has some video instructions posted on the mechanics of recording a response.

You can also do it with a cap gun or starter pistol, but the response will be colored by the tonal signature of the source. You could even clap your hands really loudly if you don't mind a little coloration. Just set up your mics where you would put room mics, and record yourself firing the cap gun or clapping your hands once at the source positions. Clean up the responses in a waveform editor and you're ready to drop them onto PV.

rumble wrote: according to an altiverb pdf you have to create 4 tracks to get a stereo verb after dropping it in their pre-processor.

is it the same for dp7?

thanks

See my comments towards the end of this thread for how to get ProVerb to recognize "true stereo" IR files: http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 26&t=44540" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The easiest way to work with files in ProVerb is to organize a response library using folders and the file naming convention I described in the aforementioned thread, then drop the root folder of the library onto a PV window to import it.

Also, searching for MonkeyMan's other threads on ProVerb will lead you to some pointers.

rumble · Post by **rumble** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:09 am

great info. thanks!

emulatorloo · Post by **emulatorloo** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:50 pm

Great set of tutorial videos on how to create impulses:

Convolution Reverb - DIY Impulse Responses
http://www.gearwire.com/engineering-101 ... ses-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DoctorOrbis · Post by **DoctorOrbis** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:51 pm

rumble wrote:great info. thanks!

My Pleasure

-O-

Armageddon · Post by **Armageddon** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:30 am

I prefer Altiverb for both ease of use and overall sound quality. As many have pointed out on here, however, ProVerb has the distinct advantage of being included free with DP. I generally wind up using Altiverb for my score work, where I need a nice, realistic-sounding scoring stage for my dry/wet orchestral samples, and I use LexiconPCM or other algorithmic plugs for "regular" music. I've messed with ProVerb, though, and it has a decent, transparent sound -- if you don't feel like plunking down $500 for Altiverb or $300 for Waves IR, I think you'll do fine with it.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:12 pm

Pretty much agree with Armageddon's assessment. I find that different
situations call for one or the other.

That said, I really can't say that the type of reverb I used ever made
a difference in whether people liked a track I produced. In some
ways I wish I could, but honestly I don't think the reverb you use
is going to make or break the deal when it comes to listeners.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:09 am

It depends on the music. For popular songs, reverb almost gets in the way. It has to be very subtle. And being subtle, it's almost as effective not to have any. The advantage of Altiverb (and other convolution reverbs), however, is the ability to recreate a room sound. You can create the sound of a studio, which when blended with your own room sound strikes a compromise that's much better than most recording spaces, even without much tail.

However, in classical music, the hall cannot be separated from the music. Players perform for a particular hall sound, milking the last drop of resonance out of any given space. Playing in a great hall is like meeting one of your idols of music history. Recording with such a sound is definitely a plus. Some halls manage to reverberate the sound without losing clarity. Others really blur the sound. I suspect that some of the IR's are made much better than others, causing less blur. One quickly develops different favorites for different types of music. For me, Altiverb was a dream come true. Literally. I'd always wished that there was a way to sample a hall's reverb and apply it to a recording. Then one day it became possible, and Altiverb was released. I bought it as soon as I could, and I've never looked back.

Shooshie

Armageddon · Post by **Armageddon** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:10 am

I like a nice, thick, larger-than-life reverb for commercial music. There's been a trend in the last sixteen years or so to eschew reverb altogether, but I like to know it's there in my stuff. The problem is, washing everything out in reverb is a classic rookie mistake, so, like Shooshie said, you have to be very subtle about it. The general mix rule of thumb I always went by is, mix the song dry, then solo each track you want reverb on, slowly bring up the send until you just start hearing the room/hall with the track, then back off just a bit from that (taking the mastering compressor/limiter/volume change into consideration). Once you're happy with that, listen to the whole mix and add more reverb where it's needed, if it's needed.

These days, of course, you get orchestral samples, choral samples, drum samples, etc. that are recorded wet, so I wind up using reverb more for glue than anything else and switch off early reflections on both my algorithmic reverbs and Altiverb.

As for the merits of one reverb over another, most reverb plugs these days can run efficiently-enough on our fast computers that they generally all sound okay, but you always seem to come across one or two that still sound like you recorded your tracks in a particularly noisy giant coffee can. I think they all have certain character and, if used properly, can flatter certain tracks better than others, so having a variety to pick from is still a good idea. And yeah, I'll just go full-on snob and say that, for overall algorithms, you will definitely notice a difference if you've been mixing with something like CSR or WaveArts and suddenly switch up to Lexicon PCM.

rumble · Post by **rumble** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:18 am

did i really spell convolution like that when i started this thread?

(too many press rolls i guess.......)

anyway, i appreciate all the great info.

ray b

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:40 am

rumble wrote:did i really spell convolution like that when i started this thread?

(too many press rolls i guess.......)

As the site owner whgo just went though and changed the spelling in all the posts in this thread so that search engines would find, it: yes, you did.

Hey... it happens!

rumble · Post by **rumble** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:17 am

James Steele wrote:
As the site owner whgo just went though ------- snipped
)

you missed a couple

(or was this intentional?)

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:15 pm

I don't know but how much more time can I waste talking about it?

MOTUnation.com