Live speakers

[Anders Peev]

Hi friends!

I'm going out on the road with a childrens show this spring and I am about to buy some new gear. I'm the only musician/composer in the show and I'll be playing different instruments and backtracks (composed and recorded in DP of course) with ableton live. I'm planning to get this mixer:

http://www.thomann.de/se/soundcraft_mfx_8.htm

I'm thinking that I want a simple analog mixer with built in reverb, such as the one above with lexicon reverb built in.

PA:s and live mixing is a bit of a jungle too me. Any suggestions on what speakers I need? There will be around 30-60 kids in the audience and the actor/storyteller will not be miced I believe. I'm looking for something small, easy to carry. I'll be playing bows and acoustic guitars acustically and backtracks and electric guitar/Line6 POD500 through the PA. What to get? Passive or active?

Any thoughts and ideas are welcome. Thanks!

Anders

link to the show with a filmtrailer: http://www.skogenshjarta.se

[daniel.sneed]

When in small gigs and theater act, I generally use Nexo PS8.
Small but definitely power inside.
Some money, but very reliable, and very good high frequency horn, with wide spreading.
If you're after deep bass you'll get the good small sub, too.
In any case, you'll need the dedicated processor to achieve EQ, speaker protection and crossover.
I sometimes play outside gigs with this system, using all kind of instruments. Never failed.

[Anders Peev]

Thanks Daniel!

I now realize that I will have to lower my ambitions on the speakers. I've bought lots of gear for this show. I'm gonna have to start out with some really cheap speakers I'm afraid : (

Will it all sound crap if I get a pair of 150-200 dollar speakers? If I must, which ones should it be?

Anders

[zaratero]

All right, I´ve seen the trailer of the show and I´ll take my advise back

[daniel.sneed]

If you're on budget, Yamaha Stagepas300 are not perfect, but clean and, IMHO, hard to beat for the price. In Europe around 500 €, including 2 speakers, amp, mixer and stands.

To make it clear, the whole Nexo PS8 set, with a sub and a good *digital* amp, did cost me an arm. Around 6000 € a few years back!

[Anders Peev]

Thanks again Daniel!

I'm really into getting the Soundcraft mixer with the Lexicon effects mentioned in my first post. I'm trying to figure out the model name for the speakers included in the Stagepass 300 system. But those speakers are passive, right? I'm gonna need active speakers if I'm getting the soundcraft mixer? Or wil it work with passive speakers too?

Anders

[HCMarkus]

Fun show! Anders, just remember that active speakers are simply passive speakers with power amps built in. As such, it is simply a matter of finding the setup that fits your needs and budget. I have done a number of low-volume gigs using an inexpensive pair of passive Yamaha speakers driven by a variety of amps, the least expensive being an old Pioneer 100 watt-per-channel stereo receiver. A sub is highly desired, to deliver the foundation even at low volumes. I didn't check your preferred mixer cost, but there are a number of nice little mixers with built-in reverb available for small dollars. They may not all have "Lexicon" reverb, but that doesn't mean they won't work for you, and money saved on the mixer could be directed toward speakers, amp, and sub, where it will probably make the biggest difference.

[daniel.sneed]

[...]I'm trying to figure out the model name for the speakers included in the Stagepass 300 system. But those speakers are passive, right? I'm gonna need active speakers if I'm getting the soundcraft mixer? Or wil it work with passive speakers too?Anders

No, Anders, they are passive. The Yamaha Stage Pass is a *bundle*: passive speakers + power-mixer.
The small mixer fits right in the speaker during transport.
Whenever needed, you may plug another mixer in the line inputs of the power-mixer, of course.

There are so many products on this wide market. This is just one I've had rather good experiences with.

[mikehalloran]

I would look at Carvin. The stuff is really good and won't blow your budget.

For 30-60 kids, your sound requirements are minimal. I use to make my living doing school shows. Frankly, for that small an audience, I would not use a PA system.

[Anders Peev]

Thanks for all the input! And thanks Mike for the Carvin-tips. I Will check them out. Sometimes there will be up to 90 kids in one show. And I want to be able to set the balance between the non-amplified acoustic instruments and the electric guitar that runs through the amp simulator (Line6 HD 500). And then there is the backtracks also. I know that I will be playing at extremely low levels mostly.

If I'm doing backtracks, is there an option NOT to have a PA? A couple of computer speakers connected to the macbook perhaps? I still have my nearfield studio monitors (Adam A7) but they are sort of built into my studio and a bit "naked" at the front. Sorry for my English, hope I'm not confusing you all.

Anders

[Trotsaert]

instead of purchasing something find a music store or better yet a pro audio company and rent a pair of powered speakers. yes speakers are expensive but the up keep can be more. if you rent then your off the hook for any repairs and you will always have good quality gear with the right amount of power.

[mhschmieder]

Any particular reason you want to go stereo? How close will people be? Remember that most live shows only have a few seats where true stereo can be experienced, and for the rest, it is a worse experience than mono.

I would recommend a Yamaha MG-series mixer over the Soundcraft, both for sound quality and reliability, as well as bang-for-buck. In your area, however, it's possible that the pricing may not play out the same way as here in the US.

As for P/A, I recently bought a single E/V 8" powered speaker and am extremely happy with its transparency, flexibility, and how well it takes to individual instruments and mixes. You would think it is lacking in the bass department, but not so. And you can change its driver orientation by 90 degrees, put it on a platform (or not), to change directivity and bass response/isolation.

The QSC K-series is also excellent. I find the E/V more transparent overall, but some need the QSC K-12 for more power and lower sub-bass. It too is good bang-for-buck. They also make 8" and 10", and the 10" is popular with keyboardists but I personally find it the least flat of the three in the series. Everyone's ears are different though.

FBT also makes excellent powered monitors that are well-priced and give fairly transparent delivery with good balance. Of the three, you may actually find them the best-priced in your area, as they are Italian.

Most mixer effects are truly unusable quality. Yamaha's are better than most, as they derive from their SPX-90 processor. I could use them in a pinch. A good external reverb unit from TC Electronic is a cheap add-on if you need it. The newer Yamaha MG-series has per-channel compression built-in; although it is implemented more as peak limiting. I prefer my slightly-older MG-16/6FX though (they robbed some of its features in the parametric EQ department to add the compressor/limiter).

[mhschmieder]

And of course, as mentioned earlier, the newer Yamaha StagePas active monitors can be a convenient way to go, as they have a mixer built into one of the speakers (I think they are only sold in pairs).

This means you can leave everything set up between gigs, for fast startup and breakdown time, and less need to take notes on settings.

They recently upgraded them, but there may not be any blowouts still left on the older ones.

For Yamaha, FBT, QSC, JBL (not recommended), and E/V blowouts of older models (along with RCF, another fine European company), check RMC Audio Direct.

[mhschmieder]

As someone who works for the inventor (and patent-holder -- until it expired) of active monitors, I am quite a proponent of the concept.

The idea is that you are able to design a power amp stage that is specific to a cabinet, driver, purpose. Similarly with the crossover circuit. Thus, if the job is done right (and more often than not, it is), you will end up with a more efficient and lighter unit than when going with generic power amps. Fewer problems, and easier to set up properly.

It may be true that an active monitor is more likely to fail than a passive monitor, but one must account for the Big Picture, which is that an active monitor is less likely to fail than a dedicated power amp.

I have had high-end power amps go south on me at hot outdoor summer gigs. Thus, I put out the extra money for a powered bass cabinet last year (it's no longer made; the economic downturn destroyed the market for seemingly more-expensive -- yet cheaper in the long run -- specialized equipment for performing musicians vs. general P/A gear that everyone needs). A powered speaker will not shut down on you, as it has been designed for a known load vs. having to be open-ended for connection to almost any non-powered device like a standard P/A power amp.

Oh, just a clarification: many people think P/A stands for "power amp", but actually it stands for "public address system". These pre-date live sound for musicians by a few decades or so. Most of the early ones weren't very good, and were used in circuses and the like.

[mhschmieder]

Also, here's a well-designed new light/portable live speaker series announced yesterday by Yamaha at MusikMesse:

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/ ... sr_series/

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2011/04/ ... -speakers/

Of course, your schedule may not allow for waiting it out on a new product, but the DSR series might interest others who visit this discussion.